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Subject: Jinmenju rss

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Ben Hodgson
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Can Jinmenju's ability to summon a figure be used in the same recruit phase it is summoned to the map? Assume that it has been removed from the map, ready to be recruited in this way.

Either the number of Strongholds is checked at the start, or you can do it sequentially: e.g. I'm going to summon Jimenju at this Stronghold. I'm going to summon at another Stronghold. I'm then going to Summon a figure with Jinmenju.
 
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Mr. Octavius
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Redking wrote:
Can Jinmenju's ability to summon a figure be used in the same recruit phase it is summoned to the map? Assume that it has been removed from the map, ready to be recruited in this way.

Either the number of Strongholds is checked at the start, or you can do it sequentially: e.g. I'm going to summon Jimenju at this Stronghold. I'm going to summon at another Stronghold. I'm then going to Summon a figure with Jinmenju.


ow would Jinmenju be removed from the map? Isn't he counted as a Daimyo that can't be killed?
 
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Ben Hodgson
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Jinmenju is the scary tree, with an ability a bit like a Stronghold but doesn't actually count as a Stronghold. You mean Fukurokuju?
 
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Mr. Octavius
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Redking wrote:
Jinmenju is the scary tree, with an ability a bit like a Stronghold but doesn't actually count as a Stronghold. You mean Fukurokuju?


My mistake, haven't learned the all the names yet.
 
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Jeffrey Nolin
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Redking wrote:
Can Jinmenju's ability to summon a figure be used in the same recruit phase it is summoned to the map? Assume that it has been removed from the map, ready to be recruited in this way.

Either the number of Strongholds is checked at the start, or you can do it sequentially: e.g. I'm going to summon Jimenju at this Stronghold. I'm going to summon at another Stronghold. I'm then going to Summon a figure with Jinmenju.

According to the rules; “So, for example, if a player has 3 Strongholds on the Map, they may Summon up to 3 different figures, and they must each be placed in the Provinces that contain those Strongholds.”

Check the number, then summon.
 
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Ben Hodgson
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My reservation was that the Jinmenju ability is active as soon as it is placed: Player summons Jinmenju, then points at the card and says 'Look, during the Recruit phase - which it still is - I may summon a figure to this Province and lose honour. I'm going to use that ability now.'

So, because it isn't actually a Stronghold (so you don't count it amongst the Stronghold number at the start of the Recruit phase as you indicate) you can use its ability later on as described.

See what I mean?
 
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Oden Dee
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I know what you mean.

But IMHO the answer would be No. Games don't normally allow looping of same action (summon). Imagine the first summon of all figures happens simultaneously within a certain time frame then you are out of time. Plus the Monster is sufficiently cool without another buff.

 
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Niall Smyth
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The FAQ generally says all aspects of a mandate happen at the same time. So there isn't a second bit of summoning after Jinmenju has been summoned. Plus the other reasons given by other posters.

I had Jinmenju in a game and wanted to summon it and use it to summon, but it's pretty clear that it shouldn't work that way.
 
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Jerry J
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I'm inclined to say "no" as well. Seems more elegant that way.

However, I see that a case can be made for allowing Jinmenju to summon - although it's true that the faq states all mandate actions happen simultaneously, the Jinmenju card says : "during a Recruit mandate, you may summon...". The summon granted by it is not what I would consider an "action of a Mandate".
To illustrate: first, you summon Jinmenju & other figures because the Mandate grants you a number of summons dependent on the number of strongholds. After that, assuming that the Recruit mandate is not over (why would it?), you could use the summon granted by Jinmenju.

By the way - seeing the amount of ambiguities in the season cards, which are bound to have shown up in playtesting, I wonder why CMON didn't include a card reference in the rulebook.
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Sean Badger
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poshniallo wrote:
The FAQ generally says all aspects of a mandate happen at the same time. So there isn't a second bit of summoning after Jinmenju has been summoned. Plus the other reasons given by other posters.

I had Jinmenju in a game and wanted to summon it and use it to summon, but it's pretty clear that it shouldn't work that way.


That's my understanding, also. Summon is once per Recruit Mandate, and includes all figures being placed simultaneously. Therefore, Junmenju's ability would not be able to resolve until the next time that player Summons (in a later Mandate, Kami phase, season card ability, etc.).
 
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Maxwell Waddelow
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Maebon wrote:
Redking wrote:
Can Jinmenju's ability to summon a figure be used in the same recruit phase it is summoned to the map? Assume that it has been removed from the map, ready to be recruited in this way.

Either the number of Strongholds is checked at the start, or you can do it sequentially: e.g. I'm going to summon Jimenju at this Stronghold. I'm going to summon at another Stronghold. I'm then going to Summon a figure with Jinmenju.


ow would Jinmenju be removed from the map? Isn't he counted as a Daimyo that can't be killed?


Daimyo's can be killed in a lost battle. They are just immune to effects. (Betrays, hostages etc...)
 
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A Frag
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I believe Jinmenju just allows you to recruit an additional figure to its province during the Recruit Mandate provided you choose to lose honor.
 
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Andre Metelo
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jerryj wrote:
I'm inclined to say "no" as well. Seems more elegant that way.

However, I see that a case can be made for allowing Jinmenju to summon - although it's true that the faq states all mandate actions happen simultaneously, the Jinmenju card says : "during a Recruit mandate, you may summon...". The summon granted by it is not what I would consider an "action of a Mandate".
To illustrate: first, you summon Jinmenju & other figures because the Mandate grants you a number of summons dependent on the number of strongholds. After that, assuming that the Recruit mandate is not over (why would it?), you could use the summon granted by Jinmenju.

By the way - seeing the amount of ambiguities in the season cards, which are bound to have shown up in playtesting, I wonder why CMON didn't include a card reference in the rulebook.


That's been the main reason we are allowing the summon right away. As clearly the mandate does no happen all at the same time, as the player to the left of the mandate player starts placing his figures, and moving clockwise.
 
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