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Holland '44: Operation Market-Garden» Forums » Rules

Subject: Attacking into prohibited terrain rss

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Matt Hill
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In para 9.1 it says "A unit is allowed to attack into a hex or across a hexside it is prohibited from entering or crossing..."

Should that read "A unit is not allowed..."?
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Michael McCalpin
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Yeh, that is the fun of English, isn't it? Drop one word and the whole meaning of the sentence turns 180º. In this case, though, the rule means exactly what it says. Look at rule 10.3.4, for example:
Quote:
(10.3.4) Terrain and the Armor Shift: The Armor Shift is never allowed if the defender is in a Woods, Marsh, or City hex; nor may it be earned by a Tank unit that is attacking across a hexside it cannot move across (i.e., an unbridged Canal, River or Polder hexside. (emphasis added)

It is true that a specific prohibition exists for Major Rivers:
Quote:
(9.5.1) Prohibited: Combat across Major Rivers is prohibited except
at Intact bridges (9.5.2) and/or with the aid of an Engineer Unit (9.5.3, 23.3).
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Matt Hill
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Ah ok, that'll teach me to go posting rules queries before I've finished reading the rules!

Thanks for clarifying.
 
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Michael McCalpin
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Prodigal Sin wrote:
It's still incomplete, in that it can be read that you cannot attack across on unbridged poulder hex. You can attack from poulder hex to poulder hex along a road connecting the two (and receive the armor bonus).

Am I mistaken?

I'm sorry, but I don't see that one might read that cannot attack across on unbridged poulder hex.
Quote:
(10.8.4) Polder: Polder has no combat effects on Infantry Type units. Vehicle units have their Attack Strength halved when attacking into or out of a Polder hex. (no mention of roads at all, suggesting that they are not pertinent to the discussion) Tank units may earn the Armor Shift attacking into and out of Polder as long as they are following the path of a road. (very specifically calling out roads because they are pertinent to this discussion)


From this I read that tank units are halved when attacking into polder hexes regardless of the presence of roads, but if there is a road, then they can receive the armor bonus.
 
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Michael McCalpin
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Prodigal Sin wrote:
What is the terrain cost for vehicle units entering a poulder hex?
Hint: there are 2 "costs."

Not sure I'm following the question, but
Quote:
(8.6.2) Vehicle Type units may only enter and exit Polder and Marsh hexes if following the path of a road.

Given that there are three different road costs per hex based on the road type crossing a polder hex, I don't know what 2 "costs" you mean.

In a more relaxed sense, one "cost" to a vehicle unit entering a polder hex is that it is way too easy to be unable to retreat, owing to the shortage of exits from the hex. That was certainly a problem with vehicle units in wooded hexes in Ardennes '44, and I suppose it applies equally here.
 
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Michael McCalpin
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Prodigal Sin wrote:
You may not attack across a hexside you cannot cross. Therefore, a Vehicle class unit may not attack into a poulder hex unless attacking across the path crossed by the road (into the poulder hex).

I'm sorry, but that assertion simply isn't true. Rule 9.1 says, in part:
Quote:
A unit is allowed to attack into a hex or across a hexside it is prohibited from entering or crossing in the Movement Phase (8.5, 8.6).

There is one explicit exception made for Major River hexsides:
Quote:
(9.5.1) Prohibited: Combat across Major Rivers is prohibited except at Intact bridges (9.5.2) and/or with the aid of an Engineer Unit (9.5.3, 23.3). Combat is always allowed across Canals and Minor Rivers.

Note that last sentence which explicitly allows combat across Canals and Minor Rivers, both of which are Prohibited to Vehicle movement. It is clear that the ability to move across a hexside is not part of determining whether combat is allowed across it.

There is an explicit statement that a tank unit cannot earn the Armor Shift when attacking across a hexside that it cannot cross:
Quote:
(10.3.4) Terrain and the Armor Shift: The Armor Shift is never allowed if the defender is in a Woods, Marsh, or City hex; nor may it be earned by a Tank unit that is attacking across a hexside it cannot move across (i.e., an unbridged Canal, River or Polder hexside. If due to terrain the attacker cannot earn the Armor Shift, he can still deny it to the defender (as in case I in the example below).

Of course, if tank units were not allowed to attack across a Polder hexside, it would be superfluous to say that they could not earn the Armor Shift, and in any case, the sentence clearly refers to a Tank unit attacking across a Polder hexside.

I expect the reason this is allowed is because of the small scale of this game compared to some others in the "series". I recently read a study that described the average engagement range for tanks in WW2 to be 800-900 yards, which is a fair bit into a 2 km hex, perhaps explaining that while the units may attack at half strength, they can still attack even into terrain that they could not themselves move into.
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Michael McCalpin
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Prodigal Sin wrote:
I do stand corrected on 9.1's direct statement that combat can occur across hexside. I had been playing it according to the terrain effects chart, without awareness of that sentence.

I’m glad if I could help, and I certainly understand how misreadings can happen: just earlier today, I read someone mentioning the extra MP needed to enter an EZOC in Battles from the Age of Reason (BAR), and I suddenly realized that I had been taught the rule years ago and had completely forgotten it in the meantime. I’d probably passed over it numerous times in recent weeks while looking for various rules.
 
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