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From the header of the Twin Cities Pay It Forward:
Quote:
5. You may contribute to the list again once you have given your previous geeklist item.


It has come up multiple times now, if part/all of a PIF includes a craft item, should Rule 5 be strictly applied? or may the PIFer be allowed to claim again?

Here's a first go at a poll to decide the issue (please also discuss below):
Poll
If part/all of a PIF includes a craft item, should Rule 5 be strictly adhered to?
If part/all of a PIF includes a craft item, should Rule 5 be strictly adhered to?
Yes, Rule 5 should be strictly adhered to.
No, add a Sub-Paragraph allowing new claiming if part of the PIF has been delivered, but the craft item is still pending.
No, add a Sub-Paragraph allowing new claiming if the entire PIF is craft item(s) even if not delivered.
No, add a Sub-Paragraph allowing new claiming if the entire PIF is craft item(s) if the PIFee has not engaged the PIFer.
No, add a Sub-Paragraph allowing new claiming if the entire PIF is craft item(s) if it has been at least 2 weeks since the claim.
      15 answers
Poll created by ampoliros
 
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Matthew Sanchez
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I'm going to make things complicated and add a different suggestion.


If the PIFFer and PIFFee have scheduled the hand off you can participate.

This includes crafts but also if two people don't meet for a while upon agreement.


Ben should not be punished because I said I would pick up at CotN. He has a month of no PIFF because it's just easier to meet then.
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Steve C
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sancmat wrote:
I'm going to make things complicated and add a different suggestion.


If the PIFFer and PIFFee have scheduled the hand off you can participate.

This includes crafts but also if two people don't meet for a while upon agreement.


Ben should not be punished because I said I would pick up at CotN. He has a month of no PIFF because it's just easier to meet then.

I think this is a good idea, especially in my own selfish case. I don't have a ton of free time, so it would take me awhile to deliver or pick up. It'd be nice for the people who have to give me stuff if they aren't penalized because I can't pick up promptly.
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sancmat wrote:
I'm going to make things complicated and add a different suggestion.


If the PIFFer and PIFFee have scheduled the hand off you can participate.

This includes crafts but also if two people don't meet for a while upon agreement.


Ben should not be punished because I said I would pick up at CotN. He has a month of no PIFF because it's just easier to meet then.

On the surface, I agree with you. But Chad created Rule 5 to avoid the situation where the PIF list flies at mach speed with just the same few people exchanging games.

Now that I think about it I think Rule 5 should just be a time limit. My first guess would be 48 hours.

Proposed new Rule 5:
5. You may contribute to the list again once 48 hours have passed since your last claim.

EDIT: 5a. PIFee, If you have not received your PIF in a 'reasonable' amount of time, contact your PIFer again and give 24 hrs. At that time, if no resolution is in sight, GM a TC: PIF moderator describing your attempts at resolution.
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Chad Egbert
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ampoliros wrote:
sancmat wrote:
I'm going to make things complicated and add a different suggestion.


If the PIFFer and PIFFee have scheduled the hand off you can participate.

This includes crafts but also if two people don't meet for a while upon agreement.


Ben should not be punished because I said I would pick up at CotN. He has a month of no PIFF because it's just easier to meet then.

On the surface, I agree with you. But Chad created Rule 5 to avoid the situation where the PIF list flies at mach speed with just the same few people exchanging games.

Now that I think about it I think Rule 5 should just be a time limit. My first guess would be 48 hours.

Proposed new Rule 5:
5. You may contribute to the list again once 48 hours have passed since your last claim.

EDIT: 5a. PIFee, If you have not received your PIF in a 'reasonable' amount of time, contact your PIFer again and give 24 hrs. At that time, if no resolution is in sight, GM a TC: PIF moderator describing your attempts at resolution.


The problem with the time limit is it has to be monitored (to a degree). Over the life of the PiF list I have received several geekmails with people bringing up issues (sometimes down right complaining and calling out others) and I could see this becoming a problem as well; someone saying an item was claimed before the time limit. I realize posts are time stamped, but I could see issues.

It could be written as 2 or 3 full days, etc. Maybe it would work. It just seems no matter what rules are in place there are always a few people that get really worked up over things.
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Matthew Sanchez
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If it's better to be safe it's better to be safe.
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pekin2121 wrote:
The problem with the time limit is it has to be monitored (to a degree).

The current system needs monitoring too. It's an honor system either way.

Matt has a fair point that arranging a pick up a month out is severely hampering.

Some people are just hard to mesh schedules/locations with.

Aethubryn has a fair point that she can't deliver since she hasn't gotten the specific request from her PIFee yet.


The spirit of Rule 5 is to allow others to participate in PIF, and to not just let a select few have a private game exchange club. (As I understand it's purpose.)

IDK, to me, a hard time limit seems more fair than 'until you deliver' due to reasons listed above.
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Chad Egbert
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ampoliros wrote:
pekin2121 wrote:
The problem with the time limit is it has to be monitored (to a degree).

The current system needs monitoring too. It's an honor system either way.

Matt has a fair point that arranging a pick up a month out is severely hampering.

Some people are just hard to mesh schedules/locations with.

Aethubryn has a fair point that she can't deliver since she hasn't gotten the specific request from her PIFee yet.


The spirit of Rule 5 is to allow others to participate in PIF, and to not just let a select few have a private game exchange club. (As I understand it's purpose.)

IDK, to me, a hard time limit seems more fair than 'until you deliver' due to reasons listed above.


Right, there isn't a perfect system and many ways to go about it to make it work.

Unfortunately there could more instances in the future to cause other amendments to the rules. Maybe that's not a bad thing either. It's great some people have thought outside the box and offered up items other than board games, which I had hoped would happen more often when I started the list.
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From the TC: PIF comments:
Whizkid wrote:
What about rule 1? What makes rule 5 special, if anyone can bend any of the rules?


I'm going to assume Chris was asking about _any_ rule, and not specifically Rule 1.

This discussion is not about bending the rules, it's about modifying them to be able to better represent the users of the PIF list.

There have been cases where rules have been bent in the past. Most of the time it has been a one-off case.

Recently, there have been a number of craft items PIFed, and the PIFer has had difficulty delivering the crafted item for one reason or another. The craft items are a great addition to PIF. I want to encourage people to continue offering craft items. The current Rule 5 discourages craft items.
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Danielle :)
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Thank you for making this poll/discussion thread!

I'd say a time limit would be good. 2-3 days maybe? That way all people have an equal chance of being open to claim an offer; you ALWAYS know exactly how long you've got until you're able to claim again (and can reference timestamps if you forget); and you can do your drop-offs and pick-ups when it is actually convenient for you instead of trying to rush it so you/your giver can claim again.
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Steve C
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Aethubryn wrote:
Thank you for making this poll/discussion thread!

I'd say a time limit would be good. 2-3 days maybe? That way all people have an equal chance of being open to claim an offer; you ALWAYS know exactly how long you've got until you're able to claim again (and can reference timestamps if you forget); and you can do your drop-offs and pick-ups when it is actually convenient for you instead of trying to rush it so you/your giver can claim again.

Perhaps 2-3 days after the next item's time limit (if applicable) has expired?

If we start giving 1-2 days for a lottery draw, it doesn't accomplish anything to put a 24-48 hour limit on a claim when the next claim won't finish until then anyway...
 
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Chad Egbert
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I updated Rule 5 and commented in the PiF as well.

"For craft items (dice/token bags, mini painting, art projects, etc). If you post such items and they are claimed, you cannot claim the next item posted."

Hopefully this eliminated issues moving forward.
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Danielle :)
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pekin2121 wrote:
I updated Rule 5 and commented in the PiF as well.

"For craft items (dice/token bags, mini painting, art projects, etc). If you post such items and they are claimed, you cannot claim the next item posted."

Hopefully this eliminated issues moving forward.

Works for me! That's actually more lenient than I had expected.

I'm gonna have to come up with more interesting things to offer! Maybe some actual real-life crafts and not solely digital art, hmmmm~

This will hopefully help me grow my pitifully small game collection without having to spend a bunch of dough on games. I am very thankful that the PIF thread exists, and for the new sub-rule! Thank you!
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