Robert Wegner
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I recently had a controversy as for the correct order in which one has to take the income located under the Planetary Institute (charge 4 and gain 1 power for most races).

Is it allowed to A) first charge 4 power, then take income from anywhere else (e.g. round booster, tech tiles, research track) and lastly put the new power token into area 1 or is it only possible to B) gain & charge the PI power income directly one after another?

Secondly, I am not quite sure whether this question has any practical relevance. Can you think of any constellation of power income from different sources which might lead to a final power distribution (at the end of the income phase) that can only be achieved when applying rule A) but not when applying rule B)?
 
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James Wolfpacker
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You choose the receiving order of each income source. If a source has more than 1 income type, you choose the order to receive them.
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Jack Spirio
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no there is no difference, as you can choose the order of all income sources and the PI is the only one that gives both power income and new power
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Robert Wegner
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The question breaks down to the definition of "income source". According to the wording of the German rules, every hand icon is a separate income source, so this means there are two different income sources under the PI since there are two hand symbols.

If I understood you correctly, your interpretation of the rules is another one.
 
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Scott Lewis
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HamburgerJung1989 wrote:
I recently had a controversy as for the correct order in which one has to take the income located under the Planetary Institute (charge 4 and gain 1 power for most races).

Is it allowed to A) first charge 4 power, then take income from anywhere else (e.g. round booster, tech tiles, research track) and lastly put the new power token into area 1 or is it only possible to B) gain & charge the PI power income directly one after another?

The "gain" and "charge" things on the PI both have separate income icons. On page 10 it says "When you gain income from a source (a single income icon), you must take it all at once before taking the income from another source.", but it also says you choose the order in which you charge and gain power. Since the gain and charge for the PI are two icons, it sounds to me that you can do what you said in (A) with no problem. What you could NOT do, though, is take the "charge 4" icon, use it to charge 2, get income from somewhere else, then charge the other 2.

Quote:
Secondly, I am not quite sure whether this question has any practical relevance. Can you think of any constellation of power income from different sources which might lead to a final power distribution (at the end of the income phase) that can only be achieved when applying rule A) but not when applying rule B)?

Yes, if I'm understanding correct, if you had a bunch of power already in Space I, you could use a bunch of "Charge" icons to move them to II and possibly III before using any "Gain" icons.

Example just using the planetary institute plus a tech that lets you charge 1 power. Let's say you have 1 power in II and 2 power in I. With (A), you could activate the PI's Charge 4 to move the 2 power in I to II, then two of the power in II to III, then use the tech's charge to move the final power to III, before going to the PI's "gain" to put a new one in I. With (B), after moving the power to III, you'd have to put the new token in I immediately, forcing the tech to move the power from I to II instead; this would leave you with 1 less power in III than (A) would.
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Scott Lewis
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Jack Spirio wrote:
no there is no difference, as you can choose the order of all income sources and the PI is the only one that gives both power income and new power

But even then, it's two income sources, as it has 2 hand icons
 
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Robert Wegner
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sigmazero13 wrote:

Example just using the planetary institute plus a tech that lets you charge 1 power. Let's say you have 1 power in II and 2 power in I. With (A), you could activate the PI's Charge 4 to move the 2 power in I to II, then two of the power in II to III, then use the tech's charge to move the final power to III, before going to the PI's "gain" to put a new one in I. With (B), after moving the power to III, you'd have to put the new token in I immediately, forcing the tech to move the power from I to II instead; this would leave you with 1 less power in III than (A) would.


You have gone through the very same thought process as I have a few days ago, before I realized that you could also end up with three power tokens in area 3 when strictly applying rule B). In your example, just claim the charge 1 income from the tech tile FIRST and then claim the charge 4 income from the PI. Lastly, put one token into area one. Thus, you get the same distribution and you treated the PI incomes directly one after another...

I was wondering however, if any other results could be reached when adding more variables to the equation (i.e. more different power income sources). Imagine for example, you had the tech tile which lets you charge one, the PI, level 2 on the economy track AND the round booster which lets you gain two new tokens. Since my brain ran into danger of suffering a meltdown when trying to imagine all the different possible outcomes in such a scenario, I decided to pass this question to the public.

ninja edit: grammar
 
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Scott Lewis
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Hmm, you could be right. Since the PI is the only one that really combines charge/gain, even if you were doing (B), you could always just do the PI as the final "charge" in a string of charging, and then gain right after that. So maybe in practice it doesn't matter if they are one or two icons. (There may still be some weird corner case involving multiple gain/charge stuff that I can't think of right now).
 
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Robert Wegner
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sigmazero13 wrote:
(There may still be some weird corner case involving multiple gain/charge stuff that I can't think of right now).


Same here. My inability to 100% rule out such a "special case" was my main motivation to open this thread.
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Jack Spirio
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that's what I meant that there is no difference
there is no situation in which that would matter
 
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Robert
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The special case you're looking for probably is not with the one power token you gain from the PI, but rather with the two power tokens you get from the round booster. You cannot split these two which may lead to a bowl distribution which you don't like.

Example: At the beginning of the income phase, all your three power tokens are in bowl III. You have the round booster that gives you two power tokens, and you can charge two power from Economy research. As your first action, you'd like to take a 4pw power action (e.g. 2 ore). Ideally, you want to end up with four power tokens in bowl III and one in bowl I, but you cannot achieve this since you have to take both power tokens in one step, and then both will end up in bowl II.
 
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Robert Wegner
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This would not be a special case following the above definition. In your example, one would have to split up the income which belongs to one single hand icon. It is totally clear to me that such a thing is not allowed.
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