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Subject: Alien rip off rss

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Marcello
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It looks like this is some kind of taboo, something people for some reason shouldn't be talking about, but am I the only one thinking this is a total rip off of H.R. Giger creatures and more, and AR might incur in some leagal action?

I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".

In my opinion this is not simply inspiration, since all the major features of the well known creatures (don't tell me they're not IDENTICAL to Xenomorphs, Queen included!!!) and franchise were used to lure people in the campaign.

People think that since something was added/removed from the "intruders", that's enough for it not be a rip off, but for instance, if I decide to use Predator for my board game, removing his dreadlocks and adding maybe tentacles on his back (leaving everything else pretty much identical), that's not a rip off?
 
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They can't. Becouse it different enough to call it a new IP. Look at Starcraft and Warcraft. Games Workshop can't sue Blizzard for the same reason.
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Marcello
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Saigetsu wrote:
They can't. Becouse it different enough to call it a new IP. Look at Starcraft and Warcraft. Games Workshop can't sue Blizzard for the same reason.


That's exactly where I don't agree.
Games Workshop can't sue Blizzard, since we're not talking about elves, or dwarves, or any other fictional stereotype or race.

We have many examples of those in fiction and entertainment, but nobody thinks about rip offs, because those are archetypes on which you build and create a character on.

Nemesis is a whole different story.
 
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Judgement Dave
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Marcymaru wrote:
It looks like this is some kind of taboo, something people for some reason shouldn't be talking about, but am I the only one thinking this is a total rip off of H.R. Giger creatures and more, and AR should be sued?

I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


I didn't call you one, but it may be fair comment as, your 1st KS comment on the matter was the following:
Marcello on KS Comments wrote:
I wonder how AR is not getting sued for ripping off H.R. Giger creature. We're not talking about inspiration here, this is a pure and simple rip off. Hope they get sued, so they'll end up giving back the insane amount of money unfairly raised ripping off someone else's creation.


That doesn't seem like a nice conversation, stating that you hope the creators are sued because your personal opinion is that it is a rip off of the alien IP.

The simple fact is that most people (myself included) can see that the aliens in Nemesis have some strong similarities to H R Giger's creation for Alien, but they also have plenty of differences making them clearly inspired by (maybe even a homage to) but not copied from Giger's aliens.


Marcymaru wrote:
In my opinion this is not simply inspiration, since all the major features of the well known creatures (don't tell me they're not IDENTICAL to Xenomorphs, Queen included!!!) and franchise were used to lure people in the campaign.

I'll tell you that they're not IDENTICAL to the Alien franchise xenomorphs.

Marcymaru wrote:
People think that since something was added/removed from the "intruders", that's enough for it not be a rip off, but for instance, if I decide to use Predator for my board game, removing his dreadlocks and adding maybe tentacles on his back (leaving everything else pretty much identical), that's not a rip off?

So you have a strong humanoid figure with an ugly face (including mouth pincers) and tentacled back? Sounds different to the alien in Predator - though it could easily be something inspired by (or a homage to) the Predator of film.

BTW - on KS comments you stated:
Quote:
I'll drop the pledge, don't have much more to say. I'll make sure to send an email to whoever represents Giger's rights and to 20th Century Fox though, I'm curious to hear what do they think.

That's the right thing to do if you truly believe that they are infringing the IP. Certainly a far better option than arguing on KS in a manner that (rightly or wrongly) may come across as trolling.

And while you're at it, if you truly believe that the IP is infringed, I'd check if Prodos or anyone still has rights to Alien in boardgame (in the AvP game). If they do, then they'd be interested.

However I do seriously believe that no action will result as the rights holders will also believe that the IP isn't being infringed.

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Nathan Stiles
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Ironically, you ripped off this thread: "Alien Rip-off?" You'll notice that since it was posted on here over a week ago, no one gave the guy any flak. So, it could be your approach, not the subject.

That being said, unless you own the Alien franchise IP, who cares? Maybe they will sue when they find out? Maybe the differences are enough-- this isn't a forum for lawyers, so who are we to wax poetically on such matters.

The important thing to us as consumers is: is this game worth your money? Discuss that.
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Marcymaru wrote:

I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


No. Don't be dishonest. You were aggressive, dismissive and insulting. You left with a childish tantrum, and displaying a menacing attitude:

Marcello or whatever wrote:

@Mark Marsh you're right. I'll drop the pledge, don't have much more to say.
I'll make sure to send an email to whoever represents Giger's rights and to 20th Century Fox though, I'm curious to hear what do they think.
No insult intended btw, with the term "hyped blind" I meant people who refuse to see that no matter how you wanna put it, this IS a rip off. And not just of the creatures design.
Peace out.


I'm not a backer and don't have a horse in this race, but found your stance on the KS page borderline trolling. Don't play the innocent; you're not.
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Frank Calcagno
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...Ideas cannot be subjected to copyrite, so I think they are okay with what they are doing. A company gets in trouble once they start using "catch phrases", names, or specific "identifiers" with a new product. So if they used the title "Aliens" or started with "In a galaxy far-far away..." then IPs can come into play.
If the ship was named the same as the one in Alien (cannot recall it) that is a problem. Even if the cat was named Jonsey, that is skirting on infringement.

Someone once said, if copyrite was that restrictive, no further fiction could be written... Then, if I wrote a detective story, someone could come along and say, hey that was my idea...

I grant that the creatures look similar, but I do not think they are an exact copy.
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Marcello
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SaintHax wrote:
Ironiclly, you ripped off this thread: "Alien Rip-off?" You'll notice that since it was posted on here over a week ago, no one gave the guy any flak. So, it could be your approach, not the subject.

That being said, unless you own the Alien franchise IP, who cares? Maybe they will sue when they find out? Maybe the differences are enough-- this isn't a forum for lawyers, so who are we to wax poetically on such matters.

The important thing to us as consumers is: is this game worth your money? Discuss that.


Hahahah had no idea. XD
I don't know, I kinda care, it would feel weird to play something that is exactly like the Alien franchise but it's not Alien.
 
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Antares Rangers wrote:
...Ideas cannot be subjected to copyrite, so I think they are okay with what they are doing. A company gets in trouble once they start using "catch phrases", names, or specific "identifiers" with a new product. So if they used the title "Aliens" or started with "In a galaxy far-far away..." then IPs can come into play.
If the ship was named the same as the one in Alien (cannot recall it) that is a problem.

Nostromo
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Marcello
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JudgementDave wrote:
Marcymaru wrote:
It looks like this is some kind of taboo, something people for some reason shouldn't be talking about, but am I the only one thinking this is a total rip off of H.R. Giger creatures and more, and AR should be sued?

I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


I didn't call you one, but it may be fair comment as, your 1st KS comment on the matter was the following:
Marcello on KS Comments wrote:
I wonder how AR is not getting sued for ripping off H.R. Giger creature. We're not talking about inspiration here, this is a pure and simple rip off. Hope they get sued, so they'll end up giving back the insane amount of money unfairly raised ripping off someone else's creation.


That doesn't seem like a nice conversation, stating that you hope the creators are sued because your personal opinion is that it is a rip off of the alien IP.

The simple fact is that most people (myself included) can see that the aliens in Nemesis have some strong similarities to H R Giger's creation for Alien, but they also have plenty of differences making them clearly inspired by (maybe even a homage to) but not copied from Giger's aliens.


Marcymaru wrote:
In my opinion this is not simply inspiration, since all the major features of the well known creatures (don't tell me they're not IDENTICAL to Xenomorphs, Queen included!!!) and franchise were used to lure people in the campaign.

I'll tell you that they're not IDENTICAL to the Alien franchise xenomorphs.

Marcymaru wrote:
People think that since something was added/removed from the "intruders", that's enough for it not be a rip off, but for instance, if I decide to use Predator for my board game, removing his dreadlocks and adding maybe tentacles on his back (leaving everything else pretty much identical), that's not a rip off?

So you have a strong humanoid figure with an ugly face (including mouth pincers) and tentacled back? Sounds different to the alien in Predator - though it could easily be something inspired by (or a homage to) the Predator of film.

BTW - on KS comments you stated:
Quote:
I'll drop the pledge, don't have much more to say. I'll make sure to send an email to whoever represents Giger's rights and to 20th Century Fox though, I'm curious to hear what do they think.

That's the right thing to do if you truly believe that they are infringing the IP. Certainly a far better option than arguing on KS in a manner that (rightly or wrongly) may come across as trolling.

And while you're at it, if you truly believe that the IP is infringed, I'd check if Prodos or anyone still has rights to Alien in boardgame (in the AvP game). If they do, then they'd be interested.

However I do seriously believe that no action will result as the rights holders will also believe that the IP isn't being infringed.



I didn't use the nicest tone in my first post (also expressing my lawsuit hopes), because I admit I got upset about it.
I guess the line between inspiration/homage and rip off is quite thin, and of course we all have different points of view.
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they had used one of the other races as the "main" race of the game, if they would have had the same success.
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Marcymaru wrote:

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they had used one of the other races as the "main" race of the game, if they would have had the same success.


By the way, while you're at mailing 20th century Fox, you could also drop a mail to the IP holders of DEAD SPACE, since you didn't seem to realize, but Carnomorphs look like the baddies from the video game. Good luck with that one too.
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Frank Calcagno
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Marcello, ideas (concepts) are a subject for patents (such as medical devices, a better mouse trap, etc.)

Names (Luke Skywalker, Alien, Jonsey) are a subject of Trademark.

Passages (direct lifting of paragraphs, songs, etc) are a subject of copyrite.

If this game seems like an Alien-lite that seems odd to you, that is your prerogative, and you should definitely stay away from it. But creativity cannot be stiffed to a degree that nothing can be inspired from an older story. Back in the old days of Avalon Hill they created a game called Freedom in the Galaxy. I love it, but it does resemble Star Wars, but the branding was totally different. Had their main character (a blond young man, by the way) been called Luke Skydancer, there would have been issues, but they created a new world with "similar ideas".
Survival on a spaceship is a concept, not a protective issue.

ADDENDUM: Here's one more example: The family of Frank Herbert will not allow any additional games to be created from the Dune franchise. AH has the old Dune game that was published prior to that ruling, and is acceptable due to prior rights. But FF(?) had a new game that essentially remade old Dune. Because of the new ruling, they had to re-brand it, I believe, as "Rex" but it is essentially Dune-lite in anything but name....
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Marcello
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Ghost CoD wrote:
Marcymaru wrote:

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they had used one of the other races as the "main" race of the game, if they would have had the same success.


By the way, while you're at mailing 20th century Fox, you could also drop a mail to the IP holders of DEAD SPACE, since you didn't seem to realize, but Carnomorphs look like the baddies from the video game. Good luck with that one too.


That's what I'd call more like an inspiration, and not just name wise (Necromorphs - Carnomorphs).
 
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Paul C
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Marcymaru wrote:
I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


You joined BGG today and this is your opening post.
EDIT- I was mistaken, my apologies. The rest still stands though.

I'd say it was more shit-stirring than trolling.

Either way, you don't come across as being motivated by good intentions. I think you are the guy who declared in the KS comments section that you were going to find out who owned the IP and report this to them.

Yes, there are elements of the game that take obvious inspiration and/or make obvious reference- but that isn't unusual in creative art.
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Marcymaru wrote:
That's what I'd call more like an inspiration, and not just name wise (Necromorphs - Carnomorphs).


Also, Whisperers from the Voidseeders expansions look a lot like the mindflayers from D&D. Mail Wizards of the Coast, please. I'm sure they'll be as interested in your mail as 20th Century Fox will. If you're really that idle, I'm sure you could spot more resemblances on your own.
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Ciao tutti. I hope everyone can take a step back, take a breath and chillkiss Let's all hold hands and sing a song.

If anyone can come over to my house, and are over 21, and can find it, and I'm home, I promise to pour you a whiskey from the Scout's own bottle.whistle (Maybe I'll ask the Medic to stop by for a peek...)

Had Nemesis become an official IP game, AR would probably have had to come up with a bucket-load of money to pay for the privilege of special branding, and we'd be stuck paying double for a quite good looking game.

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I'm guessing you like Alien.


This is probably the closest "alien" will ever be to actually being a good board game.


If you want that to get ruined, that's up to you I guess but don't be surprised when it doesn't go anywhere.
 
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Ghost CoD wrote:

Marcymaru wrote:
That's what I'd call more like an inspiration, and not just name wise (Necromorphs - Carnomorphs).


Also, Whisperers from the Voidseeders expansions look a lot like the mindflayers from D&D. Mail Wizards of the Coast, please. I'm sure they'll be as interested in your mail as 20th Century Fox will. If you're really that idle, I'm sure you could spot more resemblances on your own.


Ofcourse, Mindflayers are just Cthulhu-copies themselves, so I don't think WotC has much to say on that.

EDIT - Heck, if Games Workshop got away with some of the Tyranid creatures and Blizzard got away with Zergs I sure nemesis will get away with whatevers.
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capracaligo wrote:
Marcymaru wrote:
I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


You joined BGG today and this is your opening post.

I'd say it was more shit-stirring than trolling.

Either way, you don't come across as being motivated by good intentions. I think you are the guy who declared in the KS comments section that you were going to find out who owned the IP and report this to them.

Yes, there are elements of the game that take obvious inspiration and/or make obvious reference- but that isn't unusual in creative art.


What?
My registration date is 2017-04-21.
And this is not my opening post.
It's not just elements of the game, is mostly the character design of the main enemy, that to my eyes is pretty much identical to Alien.
Have you ever seen those Super Mario clones on cell phones?
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Shader10 wrote:
Ghost CoD wrote:

Marcymaru wrote:
That's what I'd call more like an inspiration, and not just name wise (Necromorphs - Carnomorphs).


Also, Whisperers from the Voidseeders expansions look a lot like the mindflayers from D&D. Mail Wizards of the Coast, please. I'm sure they'll be as interested in your mail as 20th Century Fox will. If you're really that idle, I'm sure you could spot more resemblances on your own.


Ofcourse, Mindflayers are just Cthulhu-copies themselves, so I don't think WotC has much to say on that.


Exactly my point.
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Mangekyo wrote:

This is probably the closest "alien" will ever be to actually being a good board game.


Let's hope it's not, I'm still finger crossing for a remake and update of the Aliens solo/coop boardgame from 1989.

If you like more the subtle approach from the first movie, I guess there's always Scape from Aliens from outer space, or even the official Legendary card game. I wasn't to much on them, though.
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Paul C
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Marcymaru wrote:
capracaligo wrote:
Marcymaru wrote:
I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


You joined BGG today and this is your opening post.

I'd say it was more shit-stirring than trolling.

Either way, you don't come across as being motivated by good intentions. I think you are the guy who declared in the KS comments section that you were going to find out who owned the IP and report this to them.

Yes, there are elements of the game that take obvious inspiration and/or make obvious reference- but that isn't unusual in creative art.


What?
My registration date is 2017-04-21.
And this is not my opening post.
It's not just elements of the game, is mostly the character design of the main enemy, that to my eyes is pretty much identical to Alien.
Have you ever seen those Super Mario clones on cell phones?


My apologies, I was careless looking it up, and have edited my previous post accordingly.

So- what outcome do you want regarding your IP concerns?
 
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Shader10 wrote:
Ghost CoD wrote:

Marcymaru wrote:
That's what I'd call more like an inspiration, and not just name wise (Necromorphs - Carnomorphs).


Also, Whisperers from the Voidseeders expansions look a lot like the mindflayers from D&D. Mail Wizards of the Coast, please. I'm sure they'll be as interested in your mail as 20th Century Fox will. If you're really that idle, I'm sure you could spot more resemblances on your own.


Ofcourse, Mindflayers are just Cthulhu-copies themselves, so I don't think WotC has much to say on that.

EDIT - Heck, if Games Workshop got away with some of the Tyranid creatures and Blizzard got away with Zergs I sure nemesis will get away with whatevers.


I'd say Zergs are indeed "inspired" by Alien, I'm not familiar with Tyranid creatures.
 
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Frank Calcagno
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Hopefully we can close this thread (this will be my final post), but let me conclude by talking about zombies.
The law of physics demands that there had to be 1 person in the world who had that as an original idea. Does that mean there can be no more literature or products that inspire from the look and feel of zombies? That is pretty much what we are discussing here...
So, to all, buona notte, e non lasciare che gli alieni mordono.
 
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capracaligo wrote:
Marcymaru wrote:
capracaligo wrote:
Marcymaru wrote:
I hope to have a nice conversation about it, since I've tried to discuss in KS comments about it, but we live in times where when someone tries to dissent from the mass opinion is called "troll".


You joined BGG today and this is your opening post.

I'd say it was more shit-stirring than trolling.

Either way, you don't come across as being motivated by good intentions. I think you are the guy who declared in the KS comments section that you were going to find out who owned the IP and report this to them.

Yes, there are elements of the game that take obvious inspiration and/or make obvious reference- but that isn't unusual in creative art.


What?
My registration date is 2017-04-21.
And this is not my opening post.
It's not just elements of the game, is mostly the character design of the main enemy, that to my eyes is pretty much identical to Alien.
Have you ever seen those Super Mario clones on cell phones?


My apologies, I was careless looking it up, and have edited my previous post accordingly.

So- what outcome do you want regarding your IP concerns?


No problem.
I'm a huge Alien fan, and I think it would have been great if this was an official licensed Alien game.
Considering the amount raised it was more than doable.
As for the outcome, I'm in no crusade against this game or AR, I just wish things to be fair.
No idea how that could translate in this case.
I guess for instance AR stating from where they heavily took inspiration and paying an homage to it would be a first step.
But maybe they did it already and I missed it.
 
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