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Subject: Sad to see the all female clans topic locked - considering that the Moon Clan is out. rss

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Shelby Babb
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The argument is that sexual violence is real, but cannibalism not so much (or at least much more rare).

Also, I don't think rape is a forbidden topic here (maybe it is?), but the lack of meaningful discussion surrounding it coupled with the unpleasant nature of discourse the topic leads to (beyond the actual subject matter), results in the threads getting locked.

Ultimately, I don't lose sleep if my games of little toy soldiers don't have rape as part of their narrative.

EDIT: this post in response to OP, who deleted their post.

(EDIT EDIT: stupid autocorrect making typos)
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Probably the answer to why this is going to be locked again is that your post has more to do with a RSP forum thread, than with HATE itself, since you engage in a cultural reflection upon violence, sexism and sex as depicted and discussed in society, boardgames in general and in this forum in particular (as its moderation criteria).

I personally don't care one way or another, but I'd advice against forcing the hand of Octavian or the likes. Let it be whistle
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Lawrence Wang
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Ghost CoD wrote:
Probably the answer to why this is going to be locked again is that your post has more to do with a RSP forum thread, than with HATE itself, since you engage in a cultural reflection upon violence, sexism and sex as depicted and discussed in society, boardgames in general and in this forum in particular (as its moderation criteria).

I personally don't care one way or another, but I'd advice against forcing the hand of Octavian or the likes. Let it be whistle


That is fair enough although a minor criticism for Octavian, next time when locking sensitive topics, I would like to see more of an explanation and an attempt to understand where the other side is coming from.
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So... that was quick. Wondering if the OP got censored or voluntarily deleted. (In case people are wondering, there was an original post we were responding to)
 
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Straddllw wrote:
Ghost CoD wrote:
Probably the answer to why this is going to be locked again is that your post has more to do with a RSP forum thread, than with HATE itself, since you engage in a cultural reflection upon violence, sexism and sex as depicted and discussed in society, boardgames in general and in this forum in particular (as its moderation criteria).

I personally don't care one way or another, but I'd advice against forcing the hand of Octavian or the likes. Let it be whistle


That is fair enough although a minor criticism for Octavian, next time when locking sensitive topics, I would like to see more of an explanation and an attempt to understand where the other side is coming from.


I hear you and when I got moderated myself years ago, I couldn't disagree more with him. Nevertheless, it's their forum, their rules.
I this case in particular, though, I found the comments about raping completely out of topic, disgusting and sexist. I'd say that locking that thread was spot on, it wasn't contributing anything at that point but more verbal violence. My 2 cents.
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Eðvarð Hilmarsson
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You can easily make a topic about the moon tribe or the number of female models that have come out without touching on topics that get the ban hammer.
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North_Wolf wrote:
You can easily make a topic about the moon tribe or the number of female models that have come out without touching on topics that get the ban hammer.


My point is that the fact that the topic will get the ban hammer while other more violent topics don't is just hypocritical and that it doesn't apply exclusively to women.
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Eðvarð Hilmarsson
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Straddllw wrote:
North_Wolf wrote:
You can easily make a topic about the moon tribe or the number of female models that have come out without touching on topics that get the ban hammer.


My point is that the fact that the topic will get the ban hammer while other more violent topics don't is just hypocritical and that it doesn't apply exclusively to women.


Octavian did not shut the thread down due to the topic of it, it got shut down due to peoples behavior and there was a warning before it happened.

Same with another thread around here, being disappointed in Eric Lang is not a lockable offense.

If you want to discuss the new tribe and the variety of female mini´s then go for it.

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Who knew deleting the post doesn't delete the topic. surprise
 
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Wikiro Trio
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Yes the topic was bringing in the sexist angsty edgy teen crowd who were just looking for agenda driven responces. Im all for a female tribe and thats not for feminism. Its just to get a unique tribe. All male is lame in comparison.

Thiago said if you want an all female tribe you can make one with available models. You get enough models and female merc can be used as prince.
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The theme of the game is basically tyrannical semi human giants (Vargs) who herd their tribes of normal humans into constant battles.



The female merc is indeed a perfect replacement for one of the princes since she appears to be a very formidable Varg.
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Shelby Babb
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North_Wolf wrote:
The theme of the game is basically tyrannical semi human giants (Vargs) who herd their tribes of normal humans into constant battles.



The female merc is indeed a perfect replacement for one of the princes since she appears to be a very formidable Varg.


"But she's not pretty!!1!"

Edit: /s
 
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Wikiro Trio
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Eye of the Beholder.

Reminds me.
"What are these? Hooks? Get out of here youuuz hookers." -Lazy guy from Futurama
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San Dee Jota wrote:

"But she's not pretty!!1!"

Edit: /s


Whether that is "the worst part of it!!" or "an attempt to dodge responsibility by having one acceptable mini in the whole horrible lot!!!" depends on where we are in the cycle of offense.

Phase 1:
"There's not enough women!"

Phase 2:
"An all-female clan? Promoting gender segregation!"

Phase 3:
"When I looked at the minis with a microscope, I noticed a 50 square nanometer patch of bare boob, these minis are designed to titillate and be hypersexualized!"

Phase 4:
"I just read that these characters aren't heroes! As I said, these minis are deliberately designed to be ugly and unattractive because the designers are subversively communicating that ugly women are murderous cannibals and deserve to be slaughtered for meat!"

Phase 5:
"Anyone got any bizzare personal interpretations of the designers message or intent left? No? Did any random person with no relation to the game's development mention something objectionable somewhere online? Still just the weird rape guy? Meh... We did that one already... Well in that case...

There's not enough women!"


And round and round it goes.
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Shelby Babb
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Heck, these work for all mini games don't they?

Flamin_Jesus wrote:

Phase 1:
"There's not enough women!"


Yep.

Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 2:
"An all-female clan? Promoting gender segregation!"


I've never seen that one. I -have- consistently seen requests for "all female" whatevers though, even when there's a mixture of men and women groupings on offer already.

Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 3:
"When I looked at the minis with a microscope, I noticed a 50 square nanometer patch of bare boob, these minis are designed to titillate and be hypersexualized!"


Heh. Agreed, but to be fair the little minis are presented in giant detailed (and often painted!) display on our monitors.

"Won't someone think of the wome... err... children!?!?"

Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 4:
"I just read that these characters aren't heroes! As I said, these minis are deliberately designed to be ugly and unattractive because the designers are subversively communicating that ugly women are murderous cannibals and deserve to be slaughtered for meat!"


Please tell me you haven't actually seen this and are just being comical (even though I know better!).


Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 5:
"Anyone got any bizzare personal interpretations of the designers message or intent left? No? Did any random person with no relation to the game's development mention something objectionable somewhere online? Still just the weird rape guy? Meh... We did that one already... Well in that case...


Seen that one a -lot- in the TTRPG world. To the point it's best I just ignore certain forums now.
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Wikiro Trio
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Sit Down and Shut up did the 2nd. They are terrible with proper feminism.
Still agree some of these should be met want more girls in gaming. Gamers tend to push girls away from my experience. Then complain to friends about why girls wont talk to them (the antisocial person saying "Hi you ever read Deadpoll?" as a pick up line.)
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San Dee Jota wrote:

Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 2:
"An all-female clan? Promoting gender segregation!"


I've never seen that one. I -have- consistently seen requests for "all female" whatevers though, even when there's a mixture of men and women groupings on offer already.



In all fairness, that one's vanishingly rare, to the point that I suspect it's never been brought up in any context by anyone who actually meant it, I was just looking for an opposite to Phase 1 that wouldn't get bogged down in overlong explanations.

Quote:
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 4:
"I just read that these characters aren't heroes! As I said, these minis are deliberately designed to be ugly and unattractive because the designers are subversively communicating that ugly women are murderous cannibals and deserve to be slaughtered for meat!"


Please tell me you haven't actually seen this and are just being comical (even though I know better!).

To be fair, I haven't seen it for this game yet (probably too low-profile to get the more creative bloggers involved), but "If it could be interpreted as attractive, it's sexualized objectification, if it's clearly not supposed to be attractive, it's a hateful representation of ugly/fat/whatever women/POC/group-I-belong-to/group-that-gives-me-clicks" is a pretty common chorus in certain circles.

Quote:
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Phase 5:
"Anyone got any bizzare personal interpretations of the designers message or intent left? No? Did any random person with no relation to the game's development mention something objectionable somewhere online? Still just the weird rape guy? Meh... We did that one already... Well in that case...


Seen that one a -lot- in the TTRPG world. To the point it's best I just ignore certain forums now.


It's by no means limited to TTRPGs or even games in general.

Buffy? She actually has to do stuff to be considered a hero, Misogynist. Date-rape-drug detecting fingernail polish? Not given out for free on the inventor's dime, profitting off rape culture. Book depicting a character overcoming their racism? Depicting a racist as a hero, racist.

The problem is that at this point the signal to noise ratio of such reports is so bad that it's impossible to tell whether any given report is based on any kind of tangible reality or made up whole cloth.
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Wikiro wrote:
Sit Down and Shut up did the 2nd


Dear lord, and just after I admitted it was satirical exaggeration. Link?
 
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Wikiro Trio
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The exat people that shouldnt be talking about sexism in board gaming if they never even took a course in it or read up on the subject (which I have). Sexism is out there and its in gaming but its not the game components that promote it. Board gaming tends to hyper sexualize both sexes. Thats what they ignore and its agitating.
 
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I'm really looking forward to the HATE campaign being over.
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Wikiro Trio
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Agreed
 
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Wikiro wrote:
The exat people that shouldnt be talking about sexism in board gaming if they never even took a course in it or read up on the subject (which I have). Sexism is out there and its in gaming but its not the game components that promote it. Board gaming tends to hyper sexualize both sexes. Thats what they ignore and its agitating.


I’m surprised you took a course and still seem to be missing the point in writing the above.

First, we have to assume you are correct in stating both sexes are hyper sexualized. I would disagree, but let’s assume you are correct. The more relevant question, then, is “Who is hyper sexualizing both sexes?”

As is the case just about everywhere else, it is men. Feminists don’t necessarily critique sexuality proper, or the true expression of sexual identity, fantasy, etc. A SIGNIFICANT criticism of sexuality in the media, and here in this game, is that all expressions of sexuality are coming from the voice of men. The male characters are not the sexualized manifestations of an “other” - they are the creations of the personal desires of (some) men. The women? Also the creations of the personal desires of (some) men. Thus, women become pure objects of a patriarchy, whereas men are in total control of how they are represented.

I would posit that a design team that was gender balanced, and generated its materials out of a system of gender balance, wouldn’t have created anything near what Hate currently presents.
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Wikiro Trio
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My bad talking about SUSD on feminist topics like in their reviews on Necromunda (segregate women) and KDM (Women are to sexy sexy but lets ignore the men models and male nudity). Eitherway im idiotically getting this thread into problematic waters

I disagree Hate is a male/female human equality structure both are warriors, shamen, and young bloods. Both are slaves the the giants and violence of the society. I dont see sexism in Hate. Also gender means identity and not biological. If you want to go gender then who knows whats the identity. They could all be feminin. Sex and gender are easily confused with eachother
 
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Michael Jenkins
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ismist wrote:

I would posit that a design team that was gender balanced, and generated its materials out of a system of gender balance, wouldn’t have created anything near what Hate currently presents.


I'd have a hard time believing a woman who spoke on behalf of the intentions and possibilities available to all other women, but it's even harder to believe coming from another dude on the internet. I agree that the voice of women is woefully under represented though.
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Shelby Babb
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MichaelJSculptor wrote:
ismist wrote:

I would posit that a design team that was gender balanced, and generated its materials out of a system of gender balance, wouldn’t have created anything near what Hate currently presents.


I'd have a hard time believing a woman who spoke on behalf of the intentions and possibilities available to all other women, but it's even harder to believe coming from another dude on the internet. I agree that the voice of women is woefully under represented though.


With crowdsourcing, it is a valid question to consider why there aren't more female game designers making names for themselves.

Maybe not in this thread though....
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