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Subject: Using cargo from contracts rss

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Metal Rabbit
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Hi

We're new to Firefly, and our first game (First Time in the Captain's Chair) ended on a small controversy, as my opponent, needing $2,000 to get the $6,000 to win, took out Big Bad Cattle Drive from Patience, and loaded the 4 Cargo. His next turn, he immediately sold the Cargo back to Patience for $500 each, hopped the 2 spaces to Ezra and claimed the win, totally ignoring any attempt to complete the contract.

A legal move?

TIA, Peter
 
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Peter Cooper
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I don't have the rules with me, but don't you subtract the value of the incomplete contract from your final score?
 
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Timothy Finn
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You only subtract the value of outstanding jobs in certain Story Cards. If it were required it would say so at the bottom of said story card.

If the question is; can you sell cargo/contraband acquired from a shipping/smuggling job? The answer is definitely yes. The move was completely legal and a rather good one at that (Albeit not entirely in the spirit of the game).

Under normal circumstances you would rarely choose this route as in doing so you would have to leave that job in your 'active jobs' are until it is completed. To do this you would need to acquire that cargo from some other means (Misbehaving/Salvage Ops). Not to mention, depending on the contact/job, the payout for completing the job is usually worth more than selling the cargo right back.

Does that answer the question?
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Matthew Burgess
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To the best of my knowledge, that move in itself is not illegal. If it had occurred earlier in the game, the player would then be stuck with an uncompleted 'active' job, which would reduce their options until they could obtain additional cargo to replace it.

If the story card says to subtract the total value of incomplete missions, you would have to do this, but not all cards do. I've been tempted to add it as a house rule.

You could potentially also house rule it that you can't sell obtained cargo straight back to the person who gave you the job (not very thematic, is it?) but that's up to you.

Edit: ninja
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Trevor Taylor
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Stephanie Baynes wrote:
I don't have the rules with me, but don't you subtract the value of the incomplete contract from your final score?


That rules only applies to specific story cards. Not every game.
 
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Trevor Taylor
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mattpburgess wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, that move in itself is not illegal. If it had occurred earlier in the game, the player would then be stuck with an uncompleted 'active' job, which would reduce their options until they could obtain additional cargo to replace it.

If the story card says to subtract the total value of incomplete missions, you would have to do this, but not all cards do. I've been tempted to add it as a house rule.

You could potentially also house rule it that you can't sell obtained cargo straight back to the person who gave you the job (not very thematic, is it?) but that's up to you.

Edit: ninja


Someone did something similar to this in our last game. They had a contract that was to load as much contraband/cargo (I can't remember which) as they wanted. They then, instead of completing the job, just sold it to the nearest buyer. I have wondered if these jobs shouldn't require some kind of collateral in order to take them (like paying the normal buying price for the goods on taking the job, which is then paid back to you before the job is paid out), or that while you have an active contract, you can't by choice go below the minimum number needed to cover your active job/s. I prefer the former, as it allows more flexibility, but also you then need to track that value in some way without forgetting that the job cards doesn't cover.
 
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Matthew Burgess
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Very interesting suggestion.

You could also just suggest that when given the option to take as much cargo as you want, you must complete the job.

However, you are then removing from the game the perfectly valid strategy that these players have used.

I guess the only problem I have with it is it's lack of thematic sense (or not being in the spirit of the game).

I think I prefer story cards that don't require you to have X amount of money in order to win.
 
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Dave Rowley
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My house group use plastic tokens (bought from Firedrake) as items for Jobs and use the original cardboard tokens for any we acquire for ourselves.

Firedrake's tokens on my copy of Serenity. Also originals for comparison.


Makes it easier to spot what you need to retain for Jobs and what you can sell on for yourself.

Roger, if you can let folks know to get tokens from you...
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Matthew Burgess
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UpStarter wrote:
My house group use plastic tokens (bought from Firedrake) as items for Jobs and use the original cardboard tokens for any we acquire for ourselves.

Firedrake's tokens on my copy of Serenity. Also originals for comparison.


Makes it easier to spot what you need to retain for Jobs and what you can sell on for yourself.

Roger, if you can let folks know to get tokens from you...

Great idea! You could also do the same if you buy a pack of the 'shiny' tokens from GF9 direct. I don't imagine you get very many, but maybe there would be enough for the cargo you pick up yourself.

(Let's be honest, now I'm just giving myself an excuse to buy one of the very few add-ons I don't have yet!)
 
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Roger BW
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Thanks Dave, https://3d.firedrake.org/

All items always available, because I make them to order.

I think there's a certain thematic validity to taking a cargo that Patience has brokered and then selling it right back to her. It's the sort of thing a vaguely con-artist crew might well do…
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Metal Rabbit
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Thank you all; really good answers! (Yeah, legal, but erm...)

We'll be looking at tasks that don't make that route efficient (and/or apply a house rule or two)
 
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Trevor Taylor
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mattpburgess wrote:
Very interesting suggestion.

You could also just suggest that when given the option to take as much cargo as you want, you must complete the job.

However, you are then removing from the game the perfectly valid strategy that these players have used.

I guess the only problem I have with it is it's lack of thematic sense (or not being in the spirit of the game).

I think I prefer story cards that don't require you to have X amount of money in order to win.


Yeah, neither is a perfect solution and I like the idea of being able to steal from your employer. But the 2 things: 1 that apart from job space (which is thematically odd anyway) this person is happy to wait forever for you to deliver so you don't have ANY ramifications really, especially late in the game and 2: thematically selling back goods you just took for a job for the SAME person, is bizarre. Maybe you shouldn't be able to deal with a contact while you have an active job with them, but that still seems weirdly restrictive.
 
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Chris Broggi
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I think it is very thematic. I can definitely see Mal doing this.
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Matthew Burgess
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broggi wrote:
I think it is very thematic. I can definitely see Mal doing this.
I can't disagree with this, except to suggest that if you do it, you should lose Solidarity with that person.

I can't imagine you'd still be solid with them after they open the boxes you just sold and scream bloody revenge at you as you fly away...
 
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George Krubski
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I think y'all are making the assumption - perhaps mistakenly - that you're selling back the exact same stuff you just got, and that doesn't have to be true.

The system is highly non-specific as to what happens during the course of an Action.

Let's say on my first Action, I work a Job for Patience at Athens and load some Cargo. Per the job details, I've loaded some cattle. But I'm short on coin and don't mind defaulting on my job.

So THEMATICALLY what happens is that as my Work Action, I load some cattle from Patience's ranch. Then I trade those cattle to a local farmer in exchange for produce. Then I trade that produce to the local miners for some minerals... which I then, on my next Action, sell to Patience.

All of this is system neutral and happens "off screen."

If you want a thematic house rule, perhaps the player must explain what they're doing and why they're able to do it.

If you want something more mechanical: "When you sell Cargo or Contraband to a Contact, you receive $100 less for each Active Job."

This is a bit broader than the idea this thread is trying to address, but has the virtue of being simple. Basically, whether it's Crime or Tasks or Smuggling or whatever, the contact is, like, "Don't you have better things to do right now?"

Alternately, you could apply the idea but only for relevant Jobs, or even (harshly) -100 per specific Goods owed (although at that point, I think it's too mechanical at the expense of theme).
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Matthew Burgess
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gwek wrote:
Alternately, you could apply the idea but only for relevant Jobs, or even (harshly) -100 per specific Goods owed (although at that point, I think it's too mechanical at the expense of theme).

This is something I was thinking also - the game is not "specific" enough about goods to get very specific about what you're buying / selling, and to incorporate that sort of mechanic would make the game REALLY heavy.

Unless you really enjoy that kind of gameplay, I'd steer clear (although to be honest, I'm nerdy enough that I'm very interested to try it. Now I just need to buy sets of different coloured goods from Roger (above) to try that out...)
 
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Dave Rowley
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mattpburgess wrote:

Great idea! You could also do the same if you buy a pack of the 'shiny' tokens from GF9 direct. I don't imagine you get very many, but maybe there would be enough for the cargo you pick up yourself.

(Let's be honest, now I'm just giving myself an excuse to buy one of the very few add-ons I don't have yet!)

Actually I prefer Roger's to the GF9 ones. And no, I'm not on commission.
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Noel
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It's quite thematic to pick up some cargo, maybe even from Patience herself. Then take off, relabel it, come back a short time later and and sell it to her.

The downside to this is normally an active job that can't be completed until you score some more cargo.
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Matthew Burgess
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n815e wrote:
It's quite thematic to pick up some cargo, maybe even from Patience herself. Then take off, relabel it, come back a short time later and and sell it to her.

The downside to this is normally an active job that can't be completed until you score some more cargo.
Maybe I'm just being pedantic (probably, sorry) but I guess it's the fact that you never move from Athens that makes me struggle with the idea it's thematic.

She sells you X amount of something, then you turn around and immediately sell back the same amount of 'something', and it doesn't seem suspicious? At least, as you suggest, if you really did fly off and then return, that would be something.

You're all absolutely right, and it is wonderfully thematic for Mal to do something like that (he's the one that misbehaves, right? ). Unfortunately for me, I can't fully make the way it works on the board also work in my head. But hey, that's just my problem
 
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Noel
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There's no time scale in the game.
 
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Jay Johnson
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gwek wrote:
If you want something more mechanical: "When you sell Cargo or Contraband to a Contact, you receive $100 less for each Active Job."

I like this idea, but thematically, I'd probably play it that it only refers to THEIR active jobs.
i.e. if you're trying to sell goods to Patience, the price she pays is knocked down $100 for each Patience job you have in your Active area.

Never got the impression that these contacts overly cared if you were screwing over someone else, as long as it wasn't them. In fact, some probably even enjoy seeing their competition left to twist in the wind.
 
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George Krubski
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JayJ79 wrote:
gwek wrote:
If you want something more mechanical: "When you sell Cargo or Contraband to a Contact, you receive $100 less for each Active Job."

I like this idea, but thematically, I'd probably play it that it only refers to THEIR active jobs.
i.e. if you're trying to sell goods to Patience, the price she pays is knocked down $100 for each Patience job you have in your Active area.

Never got the impression that these contacts overly cared if you were screwing over someone else, as long as it wasn't them. In fact, some probably even enjoy seeing their competition left to twist in the wind.


Yes, that was my intention. Sorry, I was typing fast.
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Jay Johnson
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mattpburgess wrote:
Maybe I'm just being pedantic (probably, sorry) but I guess it's the fact that you never move from Athens that makes me struggle with the idea it's thematic.

She sells you X amount of something, then you turn around and immediately sell back the same amount of 'something', and it doesn't seem suspicious? At least, as you suggest, if you really did fly off and then return, that would be something.

The sectors on the board cover alot of space. Patience isn't even actually on Athens. She is on Whitefall, which is the fourth moon of Athens.

While you may not have left the sector, who is to say you hadn't gone to a different moon or the the planet itself, and then came back to Whitefall?
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Matthew Burgess
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JayJ79 wrote:
mattpburgess wrote:
Maybe I'm just being pedantic (probably, sorry) but I guess it's the fact that you never move from Athens that makes me struggle with the idea it's thematic.

She sells you X amount of something, then you turn around and immediately sell back the same amount of 'something', and it doesn't seem suspicious? At least, as you suggest, if you really did fly off and then return, that would be something.

The sectors on the board cover alot of space. Patience isn't even actually on Athens. She is on Whitefall, which is the fourth moon of Athens.

While you may not have left the sector, who is to say you hadn't gone to a different moon or the the planet itself, and then came back to Whitefall?

mattpburgess wrote:
pedantic

mattpburgess wrote:
hey, that's just my problem

 
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Matthew Burgess
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God dammit this was a good show...
 
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