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Subject: Infinite Vitality Threshold Question... rss

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Michael Pureka

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Infinite Vitality's elemental threshold says:

"Dahan ignore Damage and Destruction effects."

Is that:

"Dahan ignore Damage, and Destruction effects." - i.e. any damage, and also immunity from Destruction effects or
or
"Dahan ignore effects that destroy or damage them." - i.e. any "effects" that cause damage or destruction.

And, to follow up: Is Ravage damage considered an "effect"? If yes, then I guess the distinction is trivial, if no, then it becomes relevant.
 
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Ted Vessenes
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If anything would kill the Dahan this turn or cause it to take damage, nothing happens. This will not protect against remove or replacement effects. It does protect against anything that could destroy though, including damage, and including the damage caused by ravages.
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Michael Pureka

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tedv wrote:
If anything would kill the Dahan this turn or cause it to take damage, nothing happens. This will not protect against remove or replacement effects. It does protect against anything that could destroy though, including damage, and including the damage caused by ravages.


Awesome, thanks!
 
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Jonathan Zev
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What about Cast Down Into the Briny Deep?
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Ted Vessenes
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Arcanist Lupus wrote:
What about Cast Down Into the Briny Deep?


I don't know what the official ruling is here, but the one time this came up, we moved the dahan to the nearest land that was not on the destroyed board.
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Michael Pureka

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When you have Infinite Vitality, you can swim really well.
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R. Eric Reuss
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tedv wrote:
Arcanist Lupus wrote:
What about Cast Down Into the Briny Deep?


I don't know what the official ruling is here, but the one time this came up, we moved the dahan to the nearest land that was not on the destroyed board.

This is correct - but only because I neglected to put the phrase "while in target land" on the "Dahan ignore Damage and Destruction" threshold effect (like it is on the +Health bonus above), or to clearly make the threshold effect a modification of that +Health bonus. If I'd done so, then the Dahan would perish, because the target land would no longer exist, so the effect wouldn't apply to them anymore.

As a general principle, if a piece ends up in an illegal situation like that, move it to the closest legal location.

(Right now, I think the only combinations that run afoul of this are to combine one of Infinite Vitality's threshold effect or the Scenario Rituals of the Destroying Flame with one of Cast Down into the Briny Deep's threshold effect or the oceans of Ocean's Hungry Grasp. But it's come up with some other situations in playtesting of new materials.)
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Jonathan Zev
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On a similar note, what about Vengeance of the Dead and Briny Deep? Will Vengeance deal damage in neighboring lands on other boards, or does the land cease to exist before the invaders are destroyed?
 
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R. Eric Reuss
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Arcanist Lupus wrote:
On a similar note, what about Vengeance of the Dead and Briny Deep? Will Vengeance deal damage in neighboring lands on other boards, or does the land cease to exist before the invaders are destroyed?

Hmm. Vengeance of the Dead does damage after the triggering effect (this is an erratum for 1st/2nd printing, though a rarely-relevant one), which means by the time it would do damage, the origin land has sunk / is no longer in play. So at that point, I'd say it isn't adjacent to any lands still in play.
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Dylan Thurston
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I added a FAQ on the Infinite Vitality discussion (including everyone's favorite corner case with Cast Down into the Briny Deep).
 
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Jonathan Zev
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darker wrote:
This is correct - but only because I neglected to put the phrase "while in target land" on the "Dahan ignore Damage and Destruction" threshold effect (like it is on the +Health bonus above), or to clearly make the threshold effect a modification of that +Health bonus. If I'd done so, then the Dahan would perish, because the target land would no longer exist, so the effect wouldn't apply to them anymore.

As a general principle, if a piece ends up in an illegal situation like that, move it to the closest legal location.

(Right now, I think the only combinations that run afoul of this are to combine one of Infinite Vitality's threshold effect or the Scenario Rituals of the Destroying Flame with one of Cast Down into the Briny Deep's threshold effect or the oceans of Ocean's Hungry Grasp. But it's come up with some other situations in playtesting of new materials.)


Hmm... does this mean that effects like Infinite Vitality's threshold and Concealing Shadows still apply to Dahan are pushed from the land that was targeted?

If so, how does a Ravage work if there are "Concealed" Dahan, "Vital" Dahan, and normal Dahan in the same land during a Ravage?
 
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R. Eric Reuss
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Arcanist Lupus wrote:
darker wrote:
This is correct - but only because I neglected to put the phrase "while in target land" on the "Dahan ignore Damage and Destruction" threshold effect (like it is on the +Health bonus above), or to clearly make the threshold effect a modification of that +Health bonus. If I'd done so, then the Dahan would perish, because the target land would no longer exist, so the effect wouldn't apply to them anymore.

As a general principle, if a piece ends up in an illegal situation like that, move it to the closest legal location.

(Right now, I think the only combinations that run afoul of this are to combine one of Infinite Vitality's threshold effect or the Scenario Rituals of the Destroying Flame with one of Cast Down into the Briny Deep's threshold effect or the oceans of Ocean's Hungry Grasp. But it's come up with some other situations in playtesting of new materials.)


Hmm... does this mean that effects like Infinite Vitality's threshold and Concealing Shadows still apply to Dahan are pushed from the land that was targeted?

That wasn't the design intent, but the wording is ambiguous. When I thought it was an oversight on just one Major Power, I was interpreting the card liberally (on the theory it wouldn't matter that often, and that Major Powers should err on the side of being awesome), but...

Quote:
If so, how does a Ravage work if there are "Concealed" Dahan, "Vital" Dahan, and normal Dahan in the same land during a Ravage?

Oi, good point - that's another one.

I may need to say that "Dahan have [effect]" means the same thing as "Dahan have [effect] while in target land" (reversing my clarification above), because this kind of case is what I was trying to avoid. Let me think on it.
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Mr Avers
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darker wrote:
I may need to say that "Dahan have [effect]" means the same thing as "Dahan have [effect] while in target land" (reversing my clarification above), because this kind of case is what I was trying to avoid. Let me think on it.

We we're actually already playing under that assumption. As the rulebook states "Powers always target a (single) land" (unless stated otherwise). So it makes sense that as soon as Dahan leave the land (or the land no longer exists) they are no longer affected by the power.

This seems clean and easy to remember to me. Exceptions like "Trees and Stones Speak of War" are already covered in the card text. And this prevents the need to track effects on Dahan across multiple lands.
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