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Subject: Differences between Daimyo KS pledge and the "retail edition"... rss

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John Van Wagoner
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- what are the differences?
- will items that were unlocked (on KS) be in the retail edition, or are they strictly for KS orders?
- etc.

thanks...
 
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Steven Townshend
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This page marks the exclusives pretty clearly: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cmon/rising-sun?ref=bgg...
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Sergio Perez
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It’s quite a bit of stuff, and a lot of it isn’t simply cosmetic. This is fairly common with CMoN KS projects - can make it difficult to purchase retail given so much exclusive, game affecting content. I’d say play a copy of the base game and see if you’re happy with that before purchasing (and don’t let anyone show you their KS exclusive content).
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Jason Withers
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Surge1000 wrote:
It’s quite a bit of stuff, and a lot of it isn’t simply cosmetic. This is fairly common with CMoN KS projects - can make it difficult to purchase retail given so much exclusive, game affecting content. I’d say play a copy of the base game and see if you’re happy with that before purchasing (and don’t let anyone show you their KS exclusive content).


Game affecting content?

It's component upgrades, an extra clan and some exclusive monsters that are in no way required to play the game.

People really blow this KSE stuff out of proportion. It's fluff and some monsters that add a little variety, that's it.
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Christof
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Nothing of it is required to play the game, that's correct. But the KS exclusive stuff is not just fluff. The strongholds for example seem to be only fluff at first view. But actually they provide a lot better visibility. I think that the tokens are much easier to miss. And the flags also provide an easier overview of the war provinces.
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uru uru
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John_VW wrote:
- what are the differences?
- will items that were unlocked (on KS) be in the retail edition, or are they strictly for KS orders?
- etc.

thanks...


For an honest response to the OP :
Some component upgrade were unlocked for everybody (plastic coins ?)
Some component upgrade were KSE (fortresses, alliance token) but don't affect gameplay (from mechanics point of view)
Dynasty expansion (new clans), monster pack and kami unbound will be available at retail (and change a lot the gameplay)
Fox clan and some monster (pick three at random at the start of the game) are KSE, but I think there is enough material for not feeling missing something.

I love my kickstarter pledge but I think CMON / E. Lang made an effort to avoid this "missing KS" feeling.

And you could totally play with the fox clan ability with another clan mini.

My two cents.
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Doug Moore
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my son in law got his full (buy everything KS) copy and I didn't KS because he was. I would just play his when over at his house.

but after playing, I WANT a copy for my house to play with other groups.
I really like this game and the ease of play.

anyhow I looked around and I guess I cannot buy it until it hits retail at march and then will have to buy ALL the extras. (I hope Godzilla is included in the extras)
 
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John Van Wagoner
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thanks everyone...as far as the "extra clan(s)", are they just so you can play with more than 5, or can they be brought into even a 3p-4p game?
 
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Eric Matthews
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Ya I'd say its somewhere in between. And your answer on if the KS stuff is needed is going to be personal.

1) Upgraded components.
This is THE thing for me. Much more than with Blood Rage, I'd miss them if I have to play the retail version. Upgraded strongholds from cardboard tokens to actual buildings and the flags for marking battles are what pushed me over the edge to go with KS version. Was it worth it YES! But I'm a guy who also buys painted meeples for Carcassone, so... The visibility of important information when using cardboard is FINE-- at worst you will need to move a cardboard stronghold a bit when a province gets crowded.

2) Extra exclusive clan.
It's neat and lets you go to 6 players without expansions. But if you went with Daiymo you probably got the Sun and Moon clans expansions anyway. Ultimately it's just some extra orange models and some another clan power to explain to new players. If you want to play 6 player games without the extra rules of the expansion, or you have a player that just LOVES orange then you will want the Fox clan. Otherwise it's actually probably one of my least favorite clans. It's fine, but it's not worth the xtra $$ on its own. Not even a little.

3) Extra Card Sets.
Some variability that you will ONLY notice if you play a lot. Like lets say you play 10+ times a year (So many people won't play even 10 times)

4) Extra Monsters.
They look great , but they are more rules, more edge case situations that CMON has not entirely cleared up yet. Will I use the extra monsters, sure, but we didn't in our first games and if they didn't exist I would rate Rising Sun the same.


Ultimately the KS version really adds "stuff" that I really like, but none of it is "necessary". If I didn't know there was a KS exclusive version of the game I'd still own this game and it would still probably be heading to be a top 10 game for me; at least for now.
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Steven Townshend
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The fox clan can be played with any number of players (3-4 as well).

The Dynasty Invasion clans as well (they are not KS exclusive, and will be available retail).
 
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Eric Matthews
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John_VW wrote:
thanks everyone...as far as the "extra clan(s)", are they just so you can play with more than 5, or can they be brought into even a 3p-4p game?


You can play with any clans at any player count up to 6 players max. The game comes with 5 clans.

There is ONE extra KS "exclusive" clan-- Fox.

There is an expansion which should be available for retail at normal prices that includes TWO clans -- Sun Clan and Moon Clan.

So there are 8 total clans, and the game plays up to 6 players. You can hit that 6 player max with either the expansion or the exclusive clan.

The retail version of the game can play up to 5 all on its own.





 
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John Van Wagoner
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i really think the only upgrades i'd really want would be:

- the fortress and flags upgrade (for sure)
- and the "dynasty invasion" (probably)

wish there was some way to buy the retail but also be able to add at least the fortress/flags mini's...
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Connor M
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John_VW wrote:
- what are the differences?
- will items that were unlocked (on KS) be in the retail edition, or are they strictly for KS orders?
- etc.

thanks...


At a quick glance, I didn't see any straight answer listing the differences, so here they are:

Kickstarter Exclusives for the Core Box:
* 20 Plastic Strongholds (to replace cardboard tiles)
* 10 Plastic Mandate Cards (to replace cardboard tiles)
* 8 Plastic Flag Markers for conflict regions (to replace cardboard tiles)
* 5 Plastic Alliance Tokens (to replace cardboard tiles)
* 20 Plastic Ronin Tokens (to replace cardboard tiles)
* Fox Clan (10 new figures, 1 faction blind, 4 additional plastic strongholds, 1 additional plastic alliance token, 2 player markers, and 1 extra player board)
* 10 Exclusive Monsters (10 figures and 10 cards, to be selectively added in with the other cards used in a game)
* 10? Extra Clan-colored Bases (so you could mark more monsters as your own)

Kickstarter Exclusives for the Dynasty Invasion expansion
* 8 Plastic Strongholds (to replace cardboard tiles)
* 2 Plastic Alliance Tokens (to replace cardboard tiles)

Kickstarter Exclusive Optional Addons
* Play Mat (larger neoprene version of the board)
* Metal Coins (to replace the plastic ones in the core box)
* Art Book

Everything listed above will not be released to retail in any form. The only things that affect the game in more than a cosmetic way are the monsters and the Fox Clan. The Fox Clan has its own abilities, and makes it possible to play with 6 people right out of the box (whereas normally this would require the Dynasty Invasion expansion). However, you can never go to 7+ players (the board doesn't support it), so if you buy everything available at retail you will still be able to play with the maximum player count (6), you'll just have 7 clans to choose from instead of 8. The way the monster work is that you may add up to 2 monsters to each of the games 3 season decks. The monsters all have unique abilities, and add to the number of options in each game, but aren't technically a necessity.

Now, in addition to the exclusives, there are a lot of upgrades that every game got (e.g. plastic coins and player markers, multiple sculpts for bushi, etc.). Also, two "mini" expansions were included in the Kickstarter pledges that will be sold at retail:

Kami Unbound
* Adds game mode variant that brings the Kami onto the board, instead of just being a presence at the shrines
* 7 Kami (cards and figures for use with the aforementioned game mode)
* 15 Season Cards (a new set to use in place of some in the base game)

Monster Addon
* 4 Monsters (cards and figures, to be added just like the exclusives)
* 10? Extra Clan-colored Bases (so you could mark more monsters as your own)

So, you could buy everything available at retail (core game + Dynasty Invasion + Kami Unbound + Monster Addon) for ~$200 MSRP (probably closer to $150 if you buy somewhere like CSI). All you would be missing are cosmetics, 10 monsters, and 1 clan. That said, the cosmetics are REALLY nice. If you're on the fence, I would recommend trying to get eyes on with them. The strongholds (especially for the Turtle clan) are huge and beautiful, the plastic mandate tile feel incredible to hold, and the alliance tokens are gorgeous and fit together perfectly.

I hope that helps!
~Connor
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Sergio Perez
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Withers wrote:
Surge1000 wrote:
It’s quite a bit of stuff, and a lot of it isn’t simply cosmetic. This is fairly common with CMoN KS projects - can make it difficult to purchase retail given so much exclusive, game affecting content. I’d say play a copy of the base game and see if you’re happy with that before purchasing (and don’t let anyone show you their KS exclusive content).


Game affecting content?


Right. I generally break down exclusive content into two categories. 1) purely cosmetic; 2) content that adds rules, expansion, variability, new abilities, etc. (i.e. content that isn’t purely cosmetic and alters some aspect of play). That wasn’t intended to be hyperbolic or controversial, only descriptive.

To the greater point: there will always be varying opinions about how much extra value is added with KS exclusive content. In this game moreso than some of the others, I really appreciate the cosmetic upgrades (the strongholds especially, and that damn turtle stronghold is just sweet). I’m typically more concerned with how much exclusive content affects game play, and there seems to be a modest amount here. Consider that there are 10 KS exclusive monsters. That almost doubles the number that come with the retail pledge. That alone seems significant. Of course, you won’t use them all at once, and they aren’t “necessary” to enjoy the game, but you could cut out half of the monsters from the base game via the same argument. Add to that the Fox clan, which adds more clan options/abilities and the potential to play a 6th player (although I wouldn’t), and of course the cosmetic stuff as previously pointed out, and I could see how some might be on the fence about picking up the retail version.

Hence, my recommendation. Try the base game. If you enjoy it enough, pick it up. It’s certainly a complete game within the box. Me though? Yeah, I’d be having second thoughts if I hadn’t backed the KS. I’d more than likely just play a friend’s copy...one who had backed the KS.
 
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Aelfric Brewer
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Running4cover wrote:
So, you could buy everything available at retail (core game + Dynasty Invasion + Kami Unbound + Monster Addon) for ~$200 MSRP (probably closer to $150 if you buy somewhere like CSI). All you would be missing are cosmetics, 10 monsters, and 1 clan. That said, the cosmetics are REALLY nice. If you're on the fence, I would recommend trying to get eyes on with them. The strongholds (especially for the Turtle clan) are huge and beautiful, the plastic mandate tile feel incredible to hold, and the alliance tokens are gorgeous and fit together perfectly.

I hope that helps!
~Connor


the current pre-order prices are:
base game $79.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu001.html
dynasty invastion $47.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu003.html
kami unbound $27.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu002.html
monster pack $23.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu004.html

so about $80+$48+28+$24 = $180
which is actually what i paid for KS of the above, including daimyo pledge and KSEs, and the playmat.
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John Van Wagoner
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aelfric_brewer wrote:
Running4cover wrote:
So, you could buy everything available at retail (core game + Dynasty Invasion + Kami Unbound + Monster Addon) for ~$200 MSRP (probably closer to $150 if you buy somewhere like CSI). All you would be missing are cosmetics, 10 monsters, and 1 clan. That said, the cosmetics are REALLY nice. If you're on the fence, I would recommend trying to get eyes on with them. The strongholds (especially for the Turtle clan) are huge and beautiful, the plastic mandate tile feel incredible to hold, and the alliance tokens are gorgeous and fit together perfectly.

I hope that helps!
~Connor


the current pre-order prices are:
base game $79.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu001.html
dynasty invastion $47.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu003.html
kami unbound $27.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu002.html
monster pack $23.99 https://www.miniaturemarket.com/cmnrsu004.html

so about $80+$48+28+$24 = $180
which is actually what i paid for KS of the above, including daimyo pledge and KSEs, and the playmat.
so, would the "dynasty invasion" include the plastic fortresses? (if you know)
 
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Jason Withers
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No, the plastic strongholds were kickstarter exclusives. Though I'm 100% sure someone will be designing and uploading those to myminifactory or thingiverse that you could print out at shapeways and get them that way.
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John Van Wagoner
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Withers wrote:
No, the plastic strongholds were kickstarter exclusives. Though I'm 100% sure someone will be designing and uploading those to myminifactory or thingiverse that you could print out at shapeways and get them that way.
hope so...
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Jason Withers
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All it takes is one kickstarter backer to have a 3d scanner, or at worst for someone to take the time to model it.

It wouldn't be nearly as complicated to print as miniatures would be, it's an ideal item to print from shapeways or an SLS printer if anyone has one.
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lorddog wrote:
my son in law got his full (buy everything KS) copy and I didn't KS because he was. I would just play his when over at his house.

but after playing, I WANT a copy for my house to play with other groups.
I really like this game and the ease of play.

anyhow I looked around and I guess I cannot buy it until it hits retail at march and then will have to buy ALL the extras. (I hope Godzilla is included in the extras)


No you can't buy the extras at retail because they're Kickstarter exclusive. You'd have to find them on the secondary market at double or triple the price compared to if you had kickstartered it.
 
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Withers wrote:
Surge1000 wrote:
It’s quite a bit of stuff, and a lot of it isn’t simply cosmetic. This is fairly common with CMoN KS projects - can make it difficult to purchase retail given so much exclusive, game affecting content. I’d say play a copy of the base game and see if you’re happy with that before purchasing (and don’t let anyone show you their KS exclusive content).


Game affecting content?

It's component upgrades, an extra clan and some exclusive monsters that are in no way required to play the game.

People really blow this KSE stuff out of proportion. It's fluff and some monsters that add a little variety, that's it.


There's also the extra clan that makes it 6 players....
 
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