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Bios: Megafauna (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Carnivore: Prey Compatibility rss

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Bryan McNeely
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Aside from venom and 'shape' considerations, is there a reason the following two factors appear to not matter when concerning whether a predator can hunt its prey?

1. Size of predator must be at least the same as its prey.
2. The predator's roadrunner DNA must be at least as much as the prey. (ex. A predator is hunting its prey on a biome with a Yellow arrow. The predator has at least as many yellow organs [plus and basal combined] as its prey. Therefore, the prey is compatible.)

I had hoped these restrictions would have carried over from the first edition to the second. If they have and I have missed them in the rules, please let me know where they are found.

Note: I'm not talking about carnivore or herbivore contests.

 
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A P
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You have not missed them; they are not there.

I never played it the way that you are suggesting, but it is already difficult to be a carnivore. Not only can you be taken out by another carnivore, but if your prey gets replaced, you get knocked out too. Herbivores do not have that same issue. I'd much rather by an herbivore than a carnivore as it is.

Moreover, there are lots of examples of carnivores taking out larger prey. Similarly, there are examples of slower carnivores taking out faster prey (by ambush, teamwork, etc.).
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Martin
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At first I was surprised at this as well, however it is much smoother in play and makes for a more fun experience.
 
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Fabian
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Just assume you‘re preying on their eggs or their young. A size 6 predator preying on a size 1 creature however is not thematic indeed. Though hey, whales eat plankton, so what do I know?
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Franz Derphausen
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I think these restrictions do not necessarily imitate nature, or are even partially integrated into the game already.

The proximity in size to its prey (H4) can become important in a carnivore contest, likewise the size difference between the two competing carnivores (H5). Some predators prey upon much larger prey, e.g. lions (size 4) hunting giraffes (size 5) in Africa, but they would lose the carnivore contest with a mega-sized sabretooth cat (size 6) about twice the size of the giraffe during H5 (assuming they both tie during H3).

The roadrunner DNA represents the adaptation to the biome the creature inhabits. It is not a comparative measurement value between prey and hunter, because hunters are generally smarter than their prey, and thus counterbalance numerical differences (i.e. the gazelle is faster = more yellow cubes than the lion). Therefore it is only relevant in intra-herbivore/intra-carnivore contests where the biome adaptation is measured. For example, the slower buffalo (3 yellow cubes) goes extinct, because the lions are too lazy to go after the faster gazelle (4 yellow cubes).

At least that's how I try to rationalise the science behind all the cards, cubes, chits and whatnot. I still have to come up with an explanation as to why all creeples of the same shape and colour are of the same size, and all have roughly the same organs/adaptations.

edit: a verb
 
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Wulf Corbett
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Personally I find the most annoying rule to be that the carnivore must be the same 'shape' as the prey (barring archetypes). I just plain don't get why...
 
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Fabian
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
Personally I find the most annoying rule to be that the carnivore must be the same 'shape' as the prey (barring archetypes). I just plain don't get why...


Hahah, that's probably my favorite rule. If you speciate into a creature with a specific adaptation, then your enemies also have to adapt.

Birds can only be eaten by other flying creatures, otherwise, they can just fly away. Same for swimmers and swimming.

It makes sense and it makes for an awesome interplay where you can get away with a creature that has very few cubes if its adapted shape is unique enough.
 
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Wulf Corbett
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Zlarp wrote:
Wulf Corbett wrote:
Personally I find the most annoying rule to be that the carnivore must be the same 'shape' as the prey (barring archetypes). I just plain don't get why...
Birds can only be eaten by other flying creatures, otherwise, they can just fly away. Same for swimmers and swimming.
So eagles can't eat rabbits? Blackbirds can't eat worms?

Spiders can eat flies, because they're tool users... which, as an arachnophobe, is a scary thought - spiders are more advanced than most organisms and on the way to language... surprise
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Fabian
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Sure they can. If those are archetype creatures and therefore haven't adapted to a specific niche that allows them to be protected.

Birds can't eat turtles, for example, because they're armored. Unless they're tool users and learn to drop them onto concrete or stones from great heights.

Worms are archetype creatures, so birds can eat them. Creatures that actually burrow deep can't be eaten by birds. Unless they have long beaks, some might even use sticks, so that'd be equivalent to a tool.
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David Arlington
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
Personally I find the most annoying rule to be that the carnivore must be the same 'shape' as the prey (barring archetypes). I just plain don't get why...


This is basically a much simpler and cleaner way of implementing roadrunner DNA than the previous edition.

Instead of having to collect A Mutations (A, AA, AAA) to go armored and eat armored, in this edition, you are either Armored or not Armored, you can either eat Armored or you cannot eat Armored.

The same shape restriction is just a short hand way of enforcing the same restrictions the previous edition had. Think of it more as capability than actual "shapes". The Burrower creeple represents ANYTHING that can burrow into the ground or ANYTHING that can get to prey that lives underground, not just things that look like worms.

I really prefer the elimination of bookkeeping in this instance. Implement the same effect with a lot less overhead.

Dave
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Bryan McNeely
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Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts on this.

While I'm still going to have trouble rationalizing a size 1 predator and size 6 prey, I think I can accept it through sheer gameplay ease, as suggested by some of you.

I may just be a little 'homesick' for the first edition when playing the second.
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David Fenton
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Occupy Boardwalk wrote:
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts on this.

While I'm still going to have trouble rationalizing a size 1 predator and size 6 prey, I think I can accept it through sheer gameplay ease, as suggested by some of you.

I may just be a little 'homesick' for the first edition when playing the second.

Just because you have a big herbivore doesn't mean it requires big carnivores. Mosquitoes and fleas are extremely successful predators (even of elephants), and horseflies are a major pest for livestock.

In the ocean, deep water scavengers such as worms and crabs could be considered carnivores eating the carcasses of dead whales. We associate carnivores with predators stalking and taking down the prey, but they don't have to be.
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