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Subject: Can Nure-Onna join multiple Battles in War phase? rss

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Keith Pishnery
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I’ve been searching for an answer in this and can’t figure it out.
1. When exactly does N-O join a Battle? Is it at the beginning of each battle, during battle outcome, or just once at the beginning of War?
2. If it’s at the beginning of an individual battle, does that mean it can go to another battle if it survives?
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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From Rising Sun Season cards (and thus Monsters) semi-official FAQ

Nure-onna (Daimyo Box) - 'Counts as 2 Force. Before resolving War in a Province, this may cross a Shipping Route to join that Battle.'

Q: (1) Can this Monster cross multiple Shipping Routes per War Phase? (2) Does there have to be a Battle (two or more non-allying Players present) before Nure-onna can join the Province?
A: (1) Yes, as long as it is in a Province that is connected to the Province where War will happen via a Shipping Route. (2) It would not seem that way.

~Take some time to seek knowledge. The Internet is a vast expanse of information. It takes some time and work to find your answers. -Joshua Simone
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Keith Pishnery
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Thanks. I read the longer answer in the Google Doc and got lost in the weeds, apparently.

~ That’s quite a signature. - Keith Pishnery
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Dave Maynor
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"(2) Does there have to be a Battle (two or more non-allying Players present) before Nure-onna can join the Province?"

I believe the answer here is yes. Her ability says she moves in before the resolution. That's the vertical red line on the combat board. People see the 4 areas to bid and think those are the only 4 steps that may trigger, but that vertical red line is the resolution step, and that's when she moves.

If only allies are in a province, there is no battle. No bids. So that red line never gets resolved, thus she can't move in.

At least that's how the rules seem to be written.
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Ben Hodgson
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Agreed. Note that Sunakake-baba could potentially prevent a Battle by removing the only other combatant Bushi or Shinto, which would then stop Nure-onna from sneaking in. Start of War Phase -> Start of War (Sunakake-baba triggers) -> Start of War Resolution (Nure-onna triggers) -> Start of Battle -> Bidding etc. EDIT: Typo
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Michael R

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i3ullseye wrote:

I believe the answer here is yes. Her ability says she moves in before the resolution. That's the vertical red line on the combat board. People see the 4 areas to bid and think those are the only 4 steps that may trigger, but that vertical red line is the resolution step, and that's when she moves.


The vertical red line says "Battle outcome". NO's card talks about "resolving War in a Province". War is resolved in each province, but battles only happen if "at least 2 players who are not Allied have Force in the Province" (rule book, page 21).


Redking wrote:
Agreed. Note that Sunakake-baba could potentially prevent a Battle by removing the only other combatant Bushi or Shinto, which would then stop Nure-onna from sneaking in.


I disagree. Nure-Onna literally says "[B]efore resolving War in a Province". Whether a battle takes place is decided during the step "War is resolved in each Province" (rule book, page 21).
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Dave Maynor
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Hmmm.... didn't have the card to verify whether is said war or battle. I guess that will make a difference and we may need an official ruling on this one.

Edit to Add: So if the wording on the card is War, would this mean it happens right before screens are revealed? Because revealing the bids is when you start resolving the war I think. If it says battle, it would happen after all bids and reveals, and just after the resolution of the Ronin bid.
 
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Ben Hodgson
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tricil wrote:

i3ullseye wrote:

I believe the answer here is yes. Her ability says she moves in before the resolution. That's the vertical red line on the combat board. People see the 4 areas to bid and think those are the only 4 steps that may trigger, but that vertical red line is the resolution step, and that's when she moves.


The vertical red line says "Battle outcome". NO's card talks about "resolving War in a Province". War is resolved in each province, but battles only happen if "at least 2 players who are not Allied have Force in the Province" (rule book, page 21).


Redking wrote:
Agreed. Note that Sunakake-baba could potentially prevent a Battle by removing the only other combatant Bushi or Shinto, which would then stop Nure-onna from sneaking in.


I disagree. Nure-Onna literally says "[B]efore resolving War in a Province". Whether a battle takes place is decided during the step "War is resolved in each Province" (rule book, page 21).
Yes, and Sunakake-baba start of war happens before that resolution. The timing model I am currently using is: start of war phase-> start of war in province 1 (s-baba ability) -> resolve war by determining whether battle happens (nure-onna happens just before starting any battle, after the battle assessment) -> start of battle -> bidding etc.

If nure-onna can move prior to deciding whether battle occurs, why not word it 'join the province' vs 'join the battle'? I took it to mean once it is determined a battle will happen, nure-onna can sneak in, and then start of battle happens...
 
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Michael R

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Redking wrote:

If nure-onna can move prior to deciding whether battle occurs, why not word it 'join the province' vs 'join the battle'? I took it to mean once it is determined a battle will happen, nure-onna can sneak in, and then start of battle happens...


Okay, I understand your point now. The phrasing "join that battle" presupposes that a battle takes place, which would not be the case if you could join, say, an empty province. It's a good argument. Now I definitely want an official ruling from CMON.


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Xavier Hu
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[start] Star of War (Phase)>>>>(this is the timing S-b take hostage )
    [start] Resolving War in a Province ...(1)
        (a)check Province
          nobody ....[end] Resolving War in a Province
          only 1 player....[end] Resolving War in a Province
          only 2 Allied....[end] Resolving War in a Province
          at least 2 players(Not ally)....[start]Battle resolving>>>>(this is the timing N-o move,before [end]resolving War in a Province )
        (b) [start]Battle resolving(At the start of battle)
              SEPPUKU
              TAKE HOSTAGE
              HIRE RONIN
              Battle outcome
              IMPERIAL POETS
            [end]Battle resolving
        (c)WAR REPARATIONS
    [end] Resolving War in a Province ...(1)

    [start] Resolving War in a Province ...(2)
        (a)check Province
          nobody ....[end] Resolving War in a Province
          only 1 player....[end] Resolving War in a Province
          only 2 Allied....[end] Resolving War in a Province
          at least 2 players(Not ally)....[start]Battle resolving>>>>(this is the timing N-o move, if she still alive from previous battle )
        (b) [start]Battle resolving(At the start of battle)
              SEPPUKU
              TAKE HOSTAGE
              HIRE RONIN
              Battle outcome
              IMPERIAL POETS
            [end]Battle resolving
        (c)WAR REPARATIONS
    [end] Resolving War in a Province ...(2)
    。。。。
[end] War ( phase )


That's what I think (If N-o must join "Battle") ,or I will move N-o at [start] Resolving War in a Province
So, whether N-o must take battle is the keypoint !!
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i3ullseye wrote:
"(2) Does there have to be a Battle (two or more non-allying Players present) before Nure-onna can join the Province?"

I believe the answer here is yes. Her ability says she moves in before the resolution. That's the vertical red line on the combat board. People see the 4 areas to bid and think those are the only 4 steps that may trigger, but that vertical red line is the resolution step, and that's when she moves.

If only allies are in a province, there is no battle. No bids. So that red line never gets resolved, thus she can't move in.

At least that's how the rules seem to be written.


Totally missed this, and since it makes sense, I updated it in the FAQ
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Dave Maynor
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I am not 100% convinced that I am correct on that hehe. However, if it does resolve there, then she cannot be taken hostage or commit seppuku, which makes her ability all the more interesting.
 
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i3ullseye wrote:
I am not 100% convinced that I am correct on that hehe. However, if it does resolve there, then she cannot be taken hostage or commit seppuku, which makes her ability all the more interesting.


Damn, I need to read what I quote more carefully. I don't think it is resolved at the red line, yet I do now think she can only join when there is a Battle where two or more non-allying clans are present. Mainly because of the capital B in Battle, which has a set description just like Move, Place, Shinto etc.
 
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George
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Quote:
Nure-Onna
Counts as 2 Force. Before resolving War in a Province, this may cross a Shipping Route to join that Battle.


"Resolving War" is what happens with each War Token (back rules summary and top of pg 21 "Starting with the number 1 Province, and proceeding in ascending order, War is resolved in each Province, one at a time:")

As for the other part, I think "join that Battle" is just loose wording. If the ability really only worked in a "Battle" situation then I think it would have been worded a lot more obviously. (For starters, it should at least say "Before resolving a Battle in a Province...")
 
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Xavier Hu
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soosy wrote:

Quote:
Nure-Onna
Counts as 2 Force. Before resolving War in a Province, this may cross a Shipping Route to join that Battle.


"Resolving War" is what happens with each War Token (back rules summary and top of pg 21 "Starting with the number 1 Province, and proceeding in ascending order, War is resolved in each Province, one at a time:")

As for the other part, I think "join that Battle" is just loose wording. If the ability really only worked in a "Battle" situation then I think it would have been worded a lot more obviously. (For starters, it should at least say "Before resolving a Battle in a Province...")



This is what I think. But we can only wait for the official explanation
 
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Xavier Hu
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The fact is she does not necessarily have to join a battle lol
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