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Subject: Worth it after War Eternal or plain step back? rss

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Vibagon Vibagon
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I've recently started playing War Eternal and I just adore it, has fastly become one of my favourite games. The thing is: after reading the forums for sometime, I haven't made up my mind on what should be the next step. The 4 expansions... well, not a great bang for my back, and sincerely, I don't want to bloat the game (I know if I purchase only one, I'll buy eventually all 4...). So it seems that the Aeon's End base game should be the obvious option: more content for less money and my "completionist" side would be satisfied, owning all base games.

My only concern is the fact that everyone seems to agree on War eternal being the most involved and interesting of both base games. We've become used to it, so I'm afraid that the original game falls flat for us.

Would someone care to explain the main sellpoints for it after playing exclusively War Eternal? What are those mechanic improvements everyone talk about in WE that I won't find in AE?

Thanks a lot!

EDIT: don't know if it's relevant, but we play this exclusively 2 players.
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Crazed Survivor
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AE is more straitforward, you don't have to spend as much resource to make a card good: when it's good, it's obviously good. Mages are less coherent in their breach placement/starter card/ability (ie: Nym, who discard cards from the Nemesis deck, has a unique that is a spell that gives him aether. While it's great it doesn't help its ability or is not related to it. Z'hana heals gravehold but her unique basically copies one of her spell. While she's insanely powerful she doesn't make thematic sense as these two abilities are not related to each other.)

AE might seem a bit stale for you as it's easier, with basic cards that don't unleash as often as in WE.

If you should choose I'd go for The Void and The Outer Dark, as they will play with breaches and give you a new and very interesting ability: Link, that lets you prepare two spells with Link in the same breach. Thermal Dart for instance makes it great. Also you'll find challenge in the new Nemeses, like Thrice-Dead Prophet who heals himself like crazy, or Wraithmonger who gives charges a whole other purpose.

Or better yet, back Aeon's End: Legacy starting next Tuesday on Kickstarter whistle
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Vibagon Vibagon
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Sure, i'll keep an eye on Legacy

Ok, so taking the second wave expansions seems reasonable, since the might be more involved, as War eternal is. My completist side can also be satisfied owning "all new" content.

Merci bc, Razoupaf, maître du Aeon's End!
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Kevin 'qxc' Riley
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As Raz alluded to, Outer Dark & The Void were both designed in conjunction with War Eternal. So all of the lessons we learned and increased coherence of mages & depth of cards is present in those.

Not that I think any of the boxes are flat. New nemeses and mages still offer increased variety, but if you really like war eternal, I'd start with the two small box expansions that I mentioned.
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Vibagon Vibagon
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Well, i don't think I would dislike any Aeon's end either, maybe "fall flat" was too strong. I meant I was afraid to find it lacking in the level of involvement and complexity I love in WE. Thanks for such a wonderful game!
 
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Nicholas P.
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I agree with everything said this far. The original core set has some very powerful defensive mages that I particularly enjoy, but Prince of Gluttons is the only Nemesis there that I enjoy as much as what's available in the Void & Outer Dark expansions.
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Vibagon Vibagon
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As much as we love it, the game kicks our butt game after game. Umbra titan has won 4/5 games we've played on Beginner... We're gonna design a new difficulty: Toddler:
+5 life points per player
-20 LP for the nemesis
+10 points for Gravehold

If this doesn't work either, I've got another idea;

- During setup, remove 2 nemesis cards from the turn order deck.

There's a slim chance that even then we'd still lose :'(
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Vibagon wrote:
As much as we love it, the game kicks our butt game after game. Umbra titan has won 4/5 games we've played on Beginner... We're gonna design a new difficulty: Toddler:
+5 life points per player
-20 LP for the nemesis
+10 points for Gravehold

If this doesn't work either, I've got another idea;

- During setup, remove 2 nemesis cards from the turn order deck.

There's a slim chance that even then we'd still lose :'(


If you're having difficulty with the nemeses, that's another reason to look back to the base game - in general, the War Eternal nemeses are all harder than the base game nemeses, so that will give you an easier experience.
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Crazed Survivor
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Vibagon wrote:
As much as we love it, the game kicks our butt game after game. Umbra titan has won 4/5 games we've played on Beginner... We're gonna design a new difficulty: Toddler:
+5 life points per player
-20 LP for the nemesis
+10 points for Gravehold

If this doesn't work either, I've got another idea;

- During setup, remove 2 nemesis cards from the turn order deck.

There's a slim chance that even then we'd still lose :'(


Just in case: you're not triggering power cards each time you remove a power token from them, are you?

I quite like the idea of removing two turn order cards.
I'll have to try adding a third one though.
 
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Vibagon Vibagon
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No, we played the power cards correctly. I just think the learning curve for this game is steep, but that's ok, since learning to fine tune the deck is proving to be such a rewarding experience. I wasn't really complaining about difficulty, I was just surprised to see us stomped like this.

I was kidding about the turn order deck, it's just we really dread the moment of revealing one of those nemesis cards!

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Crazed Survivor
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Vibagon wrote:
I was kidding about the turn order deck, it's just we really dread the moment of revealing one of those nemesis cards!


I know you were (but I wasn't about a third).
And don't worry, after 140 games I still get wrecked by Umbra Titan and Rageborne (although the latter is because I play on Extinction difficulty whistle)
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Vibagon Vibagon
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Razoupaf wrote:
Vibagon wrote:
I was kidding about the turn order deck, it's just we really dread the moment of revealing one of those nemesis cards!


I know you were (but I wasn't about a third).
And don't worry, after 140 games I still get wrecked by Umbra Titan and Rageborne (although the latter is because I play on Extinction difficulty whistle)


I know you were, for insane that it sounds to me surprise
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Andrew Vogel
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Vibagon wrote:
So it seems that the Aeon's End base game should be the obvious option: more content for less money and my "completist" side would be satisfied, owning all base games.

My only concern is the fact that everyone seems to agree on War eternal being the most involved and interesting of both base games. We've become used to it, so I'm afraid that the original game falls flat for us.

Would someone care to explain the main sellpoints for it after playing exclusively War Eternal? What are those mechanic improvements everyone talk about in WE that I won't find in AE?

If you are able to get the Updated graphics pack for Aeon's End, then I (a completionist) would go for it. The graphics in the update pack make Aeon's End match War Eternal, and the additional cards give you loads of options.

Additionally, I have all the expansions (again, completionist) and the Broken Token insert. Everything fits into the game box (either the AE or AE:WE box {I use the AE box because the lid lift in that is minimal}). I've even sleeved all the Nemesis cards and they fit.

Use one of the randomizers (https://www.actionphasegames.com/pages/aerandomizer) to generate games based on the components you've got, and you've got eons of fun (see what I did there?)!
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Dana Olson
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vogelap wrote:
If you are able to get the Updated graphics pack for Aeon's End, then I (a completionist) would go for it. The graphics in the update pack make Aeon's End match War Eternal, and the additional cards give you loads of options.


Or just buy the second edition of the original game?
 
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Vibagon Vibagon
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I got the Prodigy level in the Legacy KS (Legacy+Aeons end + Nameless + The depths). In the meantime, I'll get The Outer Dark and The void in retail. Obviously, the only correct answer to my original post was "STFU and get everything. You're welcome."
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Vibagon wrote:
I got the Prodigy level in the Legacy KS (Legacy+Aeons end + Nameless + The depths). In the meantime, I'll get The Outer Dark and The void in retail. Obviously, the only correct answer to my original post was "STFU and get everything. You're welcome."


STFU and get the mat and the accessory pack.
You're welcome.
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Vibagon Vibagon
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Razoupaf wrote:
Vibagon wrote:
I got the Prodigy level in the Legacy KS (Legacy+Aeons end + Nameless + The depths). In the meantime, I'll get The Outer Dark and The void in retail. Obviously, the only correct answer to my original post was "STFU and get everything. You're welcome."


STFU and get the mat and the accessory pack.
You're welcome.


Yessir, right away, sir!
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Patrick McGee
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Well, I decided I couldn’t wait to get the game via the legacy KS so I ordered Aeon’s End today. Sight unseen, based on all the positive reviews, I then KSed Legacy dropping $230 on War Eternal all in pack and the two expansions for the original, the play mat, recharge pack, and the damn accessory pack. Did I mention I loooove deck builders? Hopefully, this proves to be a good decision.
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kos blaat
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Razoupaf wrote:

And don't worry, after 140 games I still get wrecked by Umbra Titan and Rageborne (although the latter is because I play on Extinction difficulty whistle)

What is Extinction difficulty?
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kosterix wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:

And don't worry, after 140 games I still get wrecked by Umbra Titan and Rageborne (although the latter is because I play on Extinction difficulty whistle)

What is Extinction difficulty?


You play using the Increased Difficulty rule of a Nemesis, give it +10 HP, give your mage -2 HP each (they can't go above 8) and Gravehold -5 HP.
It is extremely brutal
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Dana Olson
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Razoupaf wrote:
kosterix wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:

And don't worry, after 140 games I still get wrecked by Umbra Titan and Rageborne (although the latter is because I play on Extinction difficulty whistle)

What is Extinction difficulty?


You play using the Increased Difficulty rule of a Nemesis, give it +10 HP, give your mage -2 HP each (they can't go above 8) and Gravehold -5 HP.
It is extremely brutal


The full setup instructions for Extinction difficulty are:

- Choose and set up Nemesis, Mage(s), Market, as per usual instructions
- Decrease the Mage(s) life by 2
- Decrease Gravehold's life by 5
- Increase the Nemesis life by 10
- Put everything back in the box and log a loss on BGG
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danaolson wrote:
- Put everything back in the box and log a loss on BGG


Pfff, amateur laugh

Nice one
 
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AeroHudson wrote:
Well, I decided I couldn’t wait to get the game via the legacy KS so I ordered Aeon’s End today. Sight unseen, based on all the positive reviews, I then KSed Legacy dropping $230 on War Eternal all in pack and the two expansions for the original, the play mat, recharge pack, and the damn accessory pack. Did I mention I loooove deck builders? Hopefully, this proves to be a good decision.


If you have Tabletop Simulator; you can find the game in the workshop there - that said, I can tell you personally that I think it's WELL worth it.

Everyone I've introduced the game to has loved it; it's difficult, requires teamwork, features distinct mechanics, and each boss is actually unique.
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