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Subject: Assorted Goods Market Space rss

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Joel Oakley
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Brandon
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The space (or spaces in 3+ player games) that give money "for exactly one market per kind of good" seems very powerful relative to other actions in the game. It is pretty easy to get a few good markets so that this action yields 7 to 9 money without having to give up a die. In my opinion, ignoring this space is a sure way to let one of your opponents win the game.

Does anyone else feel like this action is so powerful that it will be the first one taken virtually every round of the game once players get even a couple of decent markets? Honestly, it is one of the few aspects of the game that is a bit of a let down to me -- I don't like when games have obviously best choices. Do you think this is such a choice?
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Mike White
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My observations from a few plays. I think it is good, but

1 you need to have built the markets, which there is competition for. The threat of this space creates competition in the tile market. I think it also pushes people to take opposing types of markets. If you build tea and there is tea and silk left I should really build the silk. Make it hard for someone to get 3 different markets and limit the number of rounds of payoff.

2 Consider that you are putting yourself back in turn order on all the river and quarry spaces which have an increasing cost. If you go to the market first I'm going straight for river, if you have low dice, or quarry if I think you want to build, or whatever other good space matches a die you have.

3 don't forget the bonus actions on the money and game tracks run out. This rewards balanced play Vs all in on game/money.


I can see why you have that nagging feeling. In writing this I find it hard to really disagree that it's likely to be a first move in many rounds if people have 3 different markets. But maybe if you have a 2 I'm taking dancer before you can, maybe you have low dice and I want to make your river actions more expensive, maybe there's a tile that has connections you need, perhaps sll your eggs are in this basket and I hog turn order and deny you it. Perhaps this game is more interactive than people are suggesting. devil

I guess keep trying this strategy and see if you are always winning.
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Damien Cosgrove
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Bury St Edmunds
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I don't have the board in front of me right now, but from memory, the "get money from one market of each type" does cost a die to use, it's the "activate all markets of type X " action spaces that don't need dice.

Without that cost, it would definitely be up for consideration for first choice by the time you;re into the middle game. As it is, it;s still a decent choice!
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Mike White
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No I think it's the other way because the dice value is how many of the same markets you can trigger.
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Jason Williams
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Activating up to 3 different types of markets does not require a die. This game seems very heavily catered towards the market route. However you'd be surprised how hard it might be to win against someone going full into a fame strategy.
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Joel Oakley
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Thanks for all the replies.

First of all, it is definitely the assorted goods space that does not require a die (only a worker) to activate.

Secondly, I agree with the idea that balance is certainly needed in this game. Obviously, you cannot win by going completely for money and no fame whatsoever, but I think you are not going to win going entirely for fame either (it is possible, but far too impractical probably). That said, it seems like markets/money should be a part of every player's plan if they hope to succeed. With this in mind, there are two main avenues to consider.

(A) Pursue a lot of one type of market with the aim of utilizing the action space that lets you activate each such market.

(B) Pursue a decent to great mix of markets with the aim of utilizing the "Assorted Goods Market" space.

In my opinion, there is no contest that (B) is the better option, primarily because it does not require a die to utilize the corresponding action space. It feels to me as if this space should also require a die (say of value 1, 2, or 3 to activate up to 1, 2, or 3 different types of markets).

Upon writing this, I am giving consideration to the idea that you can perhaps ignore markets all together, instead utilizing river spaces, yield tiles, as well as palace action 4 (if memory serves) to get enough money to gain some bonuses and maintain enough for building province tiles, etc. Next time I play, I may try focused building of province tiles that contain only buildings and no markets. The fact that the palace action 4 gives building upgrades in addition to money (again if memory serves) makes this seem like a potentially viable approach.
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Mike White
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Also don't forget the number of connections on tiles is important. Maybe you want that missing market to complete the set, but it's on a tile with a road straight through. We find tiles with 4 connections go like hot cakes. And again maybe its more important to get that first than simply taking the cash.

But yes, your A Vs B comparison is correct and in a vacuum you'd just do B.

 
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David Stahle
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I tried to open with fame last game instead of first pursuing a good market setup. For me opening and pursuing a fame strategy means:

- With boat and palace "action four" increase fame rewards for specific buildings as first priority.
- Build a couple of corresponding buildings to unlock your first worker from the fame track.
- Do not prioritize market tiles but instead the buildings you get most fame for.

It was a three player normal (or beginner) game, the other two players went for a market strategy (meaning first focus on diversified markets and unlock first worker from money track and then frequently visit diverse market action space). I came last and my observations below.

- Market tiles are best if you get them early, then you have more time, rounds, for later activation.
- Building tiles are best later when you have upgraded their fame yield.
- It is easier to unlock the money worker, my opponents got their forth a round before me despite my focused efforts. I got my fifth a round (or two) before them though so it evened out.
- The bonuses on the money track are better than on the fame track and lets you keep your engine going, thinking specifically on the two dice bonus.
- To set up the money strategy you need as little as two or three tiles. After that you are very flexible on how to proceed, which tiles to get and can more easily build to unlock player board bonuses.
- For the fame strategy you are very dependent on good rolls, that you have the right color of dice for what new tiles show up (since you are after 1 or 2 specific buildings) and that suitable building tiles have roads that match your player board opportunities.

I lost the game but not by much, all three players met the end game condition on the same round. My conclusion is that on the beginner map with three players it is very favorable to go early market and later building/fame which leaves little room for strategic options.
 
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Marc Gilutin
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Also, fame is harder to get so look for opportunities for upgrades so you can get 3 or 4 fame when you build a tile with one (or more) buildings on it.
 
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Jason
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Played my first game of this, and the winning player was able to utilize the market to get 7+ money each turn. The ability to quickly move up the track worked far better than my fame strategy. I had most of the fame building markers at 4, but it's better to go dice free for 7+ money, than 1-2 dice for 4-8 fame.

I'm not saying to ignore the fame track. But, the market seems like the strongest space in the game for gaining points. The recommendation that it requires a 1, 2, or 3 die seems like a good variant to address the space.
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Mike White
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You only need 2 or even 1 market to make competition for that diceless space worthwhile. Then you have an alternative strategy they do not.

I haven't played enough to know if this plays out, but it seems sensible.

It just seems to me that people are looking to pick a strategy in a game that is more about eeking out little advantages as often as possible and is therefore much more tactical in nature.

Because of the way you get extra workers on both tracks and because the bonuses on each track run out I think a balanced strategy played well would be stronger than a market only or fame only strategy.

Could be wrong though. Just my ramblings.
 
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Joel Oakley
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Slim Chalkey wrote:
You only need 2 or even 1 market to make competition for that diceless space worthwhile. Then you have an alternative strategy they do not.

I haven't played enough to know if this plays out, but it seems sensible.

It just seems to me that people are looking to pick a strategy in a game that is more about eeking out little advantages as often as possible and is therefore much more tactical in nature.

Because of the way you get extra workers on both tracks and because the bonuses on each track run out I think a balanced strategy played well would be stronger than a market only or fame only strategy.

Could be wrong though. Just my ramblings.


In many ways, this post is reinforcing my thoughts that the Assorted Goods Market action will typically be the first action(s) taken each round. The fact that it is seen as a worthy action even when your own benefit is small (so that others are blocked from taking it) supports my belief that it's an obvious choice.

Regarding a balanced strategy, I agree that pursuing money or fame almost exclusively is folly. Since everyone playing is likely to be pursuing a bit of both, I am all the more likely to take advantage of the Assorted Goods action as soon as possible each round -- it is free, costing no money or dice, and helps the money side of things, which can often yield bonus dice or other benefits from the river. To make gains in fame or to gain money from the other market action type, you have to spend resources (money and/or dice).

By the way, I think this is a fine game and one that I will probably keep for a while. I just think there is an obvious first move each round once someone gets a couple of different markets of decent value.
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Chris Ponce
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"You have to choose which one you'll follow." - The Tree Of Life
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I'm planning on using the house rule of giving up a value 1, 2 or 3 Die on the Assorted Goods Market for the 2-Player Games I've been playing recently with my wife. Please let me know if it works out for you.
 
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Adam Sikorski
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The fame strategy is very powerful, I won last two games with quite a big advantage. I has only one market built. Play some games, there is no need to use home rule.
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Andrew Kreps
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VaultBoy wrote:
Played my first game of this, and the winning player was able to utilize the market to get 7+ money each turn. The ability to quickly move up the track worked far better than my fame strategy. I had most of the fame building markers at 4, but it's better to go dice free for 7+ money, than 1-2 dice for 4-8 fame.

I'm not saying to ignore the fame track. But, the market seems like the strongest space in the game for gaining points. The recommendation that it requires a 1, 2, or 3 die seems like a good variant to address the space.


I don't agree with this analysis. 8 fame is worth 16 money and there's no way to lose fame. Therefore, I'm happy to trade 2 dice for that outcome.
 
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Jonathan Degann
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I am also coming to the opinion that the mixed market strategy is too strong. In many games, the first thing that people often try to do is get a "3" market (or maybe one "2) in each good. Then you just hit the mixed market space every turn you can for an easy 8-9 money. This in no way stops a "fame" strategy. You just get your markets, keep hitting the mixed market space, and meanwhile can ignore other market tiles and pursue fame for the rest of the game. It becomes predictable.

It can easily create a runaway strategy.

I think sacrificing a die is an easy call to modify it. I could even see upping the demands: at least a 1/3/5 die to sell 1/2/3 goods.


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Doron F-N
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Jonathan Degann wrote:
I am also coming to the opinion that the mixed market strategy is too strong. In many games, the first thing that people often try to do is get a "3" market (or maybe one "2) in each good. Then you just hit the mixed market space every turn you can for an easy 8-9 money. This in no way stops a "fame" strategy. You just get your markets, keep hitting the mixed market space, and meanwhile can ignore other market tiles and pursue fame for the rest of the game. It becomes predictable.

It can easily create a runaway strategy.

I think sacrificing a die is an easy call to modify it. I could even see upping the demands: at least a 1/3/5 die to sell 1/2/3 goods.




It's your game and you can play with house rules if you want but in my mind it is unnecessary. There's a reason there's only 1 space of this type on the board (on the 2 player side) or 2 where you can only place 1 of your workers (3\4 sides). It's a great spot and you shouldn't let someone just take it every round if he has a good mix of markets going on. And if you let him get the 3X3X3 markets oh man that's on you.

(If you don't like too play so competitively then I get it that you want to play with a house rule)
 
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