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Subject: Why does the 3rd player only get 1 water as a starting bonus? rss

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Jooice ZP
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Finally, players in a clockwise order starting from the First Player receive 0/1/1/2 Water.


Seems that the 2nd player has a built in advantage on the 3rd player.
Why?

especially in a 3 player game it felt very weird to receive the same bonus when in fact the 3rd player goes last....
 
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Gannon Dubay
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I think the exact balance would be closer to something like 0/0.7/1.3/2 but there aren't fractional water tokens so its close enough to not make much of a difference. A single water over the course of the entire game isn't much.
 
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Jooice ZP
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DaGannondorf wrote:
I think the exact balance would be closer to something like 0/0.7/1.3/2 but there aren't fractional water tokens so its close enough to not make much of a difference. A single water over the course of the entire game isn't much.


Apparently it is enough to offset the big bonus of going first....

in a 3 player game the cost of the same action goes from 0 to 1 to 2(first player spot).
in a 4 person game the cost of the same action goes from 0 to 1 to 2 to 2(first player spot).

That seems to be the more reasonable water dispersment and thats not even considering the great advantage that going first gives you.
(if everyone actually got the same benefit for their first action)
 
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David Turczi
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DaGannondorf wrote:
I think the exact balance would be closer to something like 0/0.7/1.3/2 but there aren't fractional water tokens so its close enough to not make much of a difference. A single water over the course of the entire game isn't much.

I'd say even less actually. I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation. There are almost always 3-4 good "first actions" (grab genius, grab cheap building, grab neutronium, etc) so the difference between going 2nd and 3rd is ... not big.

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Jooice ZP
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TDaver wrote:
DaGannondorf wrote:
I think the exact balance would be closer to something like 0/0.7/1.3/2 but there aren't fractional water tokens so its close enough to not make much of a difference. A single water over the course of the entire game isn't much.

I'd say even less actually. I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation. There are almost always 3-4 good "first actions" (grab genius, grab cheap building, grab neutronium, etc) so the difference between going 2nd and 3rd is ... not big.



I guess you know best

very cool design, ill keep playing, ill get better
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David Turczi
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jooice wrote:
TDaver wrote:
DaGannondorf wrote:
I think the exact balance would be closer to something like 0/0.7/1.3/2 but there aren't fractional water tokens so its close enough to not make much of a difference. A single water over the course of the entire game isn't much.

I'd say even less actually. I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation. There are almost always 3-4 good "first actions" (grab genius, grab cheap building, grab neutronium, etc) so the difference between going 2nd and 3rd is ... not big.



I guess you know best

very cool design, ill keep playing, ill get better


Actually it's my playtesters who played 30+ times with me over a course of a year and whooping me every single time who know best

And they said starting turn order doesn't matter, but the difference between the player BEFORE or AFTER you in turn order taking the First Player spot mid-game is quite a big semi-random swing. So that issue I plan to address in a hypothetical expansion. Starting order compensation... not so much
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Barry Miller
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TDaver wrote:
I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation.

So this does beg the question of why the turn order compensation even ended-up in the game. Or was that decision larger than you?

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Dustin Crenshaw
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Yes this drives me, and one of my friends nuts in games.
 
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David Turczi
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bgm1961 wrote:

TDaver wrote:
I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation.

So this does beg the question of why the turn order compensation even ended-up in the game. Or was that decision larger than you?



The development team's sense of righteousness outvoted me. Plus if we didn't people would complain. It's more often about the feeling of balance as opposed to actual balance...
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Scott Dornian
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TDaver wrote:
It's more often about the feeling of balance as opposed to actual balance...

It's like a comfort blanket.
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Jerry Tresman
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TDaver wrote:
bgm1961 wrote:

TDaver wrote:
I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation.

So this does beg the question of why the turn order compensation even ended-up in the game. Or was that decision larger than you?



The development team's sense of righteousness outvoted me. Plus if we didn't people would complain. It's more often about the feeling of balance as opposed to actual balance...


I have never noticed this rule and never been picked up on it and not always my copy being played.
 
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Starman54 wrote:
TDaver wrote:
bgm1961 wrote:

TDaver wrote:
I played for almost 2 years with no turn order compensation.

So this does beg the question of why the turn order compensation even ended-up in the game. Or was that decision larger than you?



The development team's sense of righteousness outvoted me. Plus if we didn't people would complain. It's more often about the feeling of balance as opposed to actual balance...


I have never noticed this rule and never been picked up on it and not always my copy being played.


u are saying u didnt notice the water bonus in general?
 
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