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Subject: Opportunist - How does it work? rss

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Shush Ruth
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Any building resource.

https://alavigne.net/Gaming/Agricola/agricola-comp-v9.0.html...
 
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Geoff Burkman
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So what's the question? Seems pretty self-explanatory and confusion-free.
 
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Grant
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OP deleted OP?
 
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Peter D
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shruthless wrote:


My original question disappeared. I was confused as the card says "taken directly from an action space". Reed, stone, food is not taken from the action space, but taken from the supply. So I thought it might mean only resources which physically can be taken from an action space. But it seems it means any resources which are taken by activating an action space, rather than taken physically 'from' an action space.
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Geoff Burkman
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duckworp wrote:
shruthless wrote:


My original question disappeared. I was confused as the card says "taken directly from an action space". Reed, stone, food is not taken from the action space, but taken from the supply. So I thought it might mean only resources which physically can be taken from an action space. But it seems it means any resources which are taken by activating an action space, rather than taken physically 'from' an action space.


Note, though, that "taken directly from an action space" is not part of the card text. The conditional requirement is "types of building resources that have not yet been taken this Work phase." Now that I think about it, this raises a further question: does it mean resources taken from an action space that has not yet been used, or does it mean taking resources that have not been taken by any player in the work phase so far? Thus, if someone has taken, say, the 3Wood, does this mean Opportunist no longer applies to an as yet untaken 2Wood? Likewise with the Quarries (accumulating stone) and RSf (or any other space that might yield stone)?

Personally, I would rule the former, otherwise the utility of the card is rendered negligible, which I doubt was the intent of the designer.
 
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Peter D
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MisterG wrote:
duckworp wrote:
shruthless wrote:


My original question disappeared. I was confused as the card says "taken directly from an action space". Reed, stone, food is not taken from the action space, but taken from the supply. So I thought it might mean only resources which physically can be taken from an action space. But it seems it means any resources which are taken by activating an action space, rather than taken physically 'from' an action space.


Note, though, that "taken directly from an action space" is not part of the card text. The conditional requirement is "types of building resources that have not yet been taken this Work phase." Now that I think about it, this raises a further question: does it mean resources taken from an action space that has not yet been used, or does it mean taking resources that have not been taken by any player in the work phase so far? Thus, if someone has taken, say, the 3Wood, does this mean Opportunist no longer applies to an as yet untaken 2Wood? Likewise with the Quarries (accumulating stone) and RSf (or any other space that might yield stone)?

Personally, I would rule the former, otherwise the utility of the card is rendered negligible, which I doubt was the intent of the designer.



I'm more confused now as I don’t know what you are referring to in 'the former' case. This is how we ended up playing it: if in this round resource x has been taken at any time physically from a work space, or resulting directly from the action of a work space (eg reed/stone/food), then the Opportunist cannot be used to take an extra resource of resource x.

So for example if any player took the reed, stone, food action in this round, then I could NOT use the Opportunist to take an extra stone or reed from a stone or reed accumulation space. Or if any player took the wood from the 3 wood space in this round then I could NOT use the Opportunist to take an extra wood from the 2 wood space.

Is that right?



 
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Grant
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duckworp wrote:
MisterG wrote:
duckworp wrote:
shruthless wrote:


My original question disappeared. I was confused as the card says "taken directly from an action space". Reed, stone, food is not taken from the action space, but taken from the supply. So I thought it might mean only resources which physically can be taken from an action space. But it seems it means any resources which are taken by activating an action space, rather than taken physically 'from' an action space.


Note, though, that "taken directly from an action space" is not part of the card text. The conditional requirement is "types of building resources that have not yet been taken this Work phase." Now that I think about it, this raises a further question: does it mean resources taken from an action space that has not yet been used, or does it mean taking resources that have not been taken by any player in the work phase so far? Thus, if someone has taken, say, the 3Wood, does this mean Opportunist no longer applies to an as yet untaken 2Wood? Likewise with the Quarries (accumulating stone) and RSf (or any other space that might yield stone)?

Personally, I would rule the former, otherwise the utility of the card is rendered negligible, which I doubt was the intent of the designer.



I'm more confused now as I don’t know what you are referring to in 'the former' case. This is how we ended up playing it: if resource x has been taken at any time physically from a work space, or resulting directly from the action of a work space (eg reed/stone/food), then the Opportunist cannot be used to take an extra resource of resource x.

So for example if any player took the reed, stone, food action, then I could not use the Opportunist to take an extra stone from a stone accumulation space. Or if you took all the wood from the 3 wood space I could not use the Opportunist to take an extra wood from the 2 wood space.

Is that right?

That is how I would interpret it. The “former” case in MisterG’s example doesn’t make any sense to me. Action spaces that haven’t been used are (generally) the only actions you can take, so if his former interpretation were true that would be a meaningless distinction.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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grant5 wrote:
duckworp wrote:
MisterG wrote:
duckworp wrote:
shruthless wrote:


My original question disappeared. I was confused as the card says "taken directly from an action space". Reed, stone, food is not taken from the action space, but taken from the supply. So I thought it might mean only resources which physically can be taken from an action space. But it seems it means any resources which are taken by activating an action space, rather than taken physically 'from' an action space.


Note, though, that "taken directly from an action space" is not part of the card text. The conditional requirement is "types of building resources that have not yet been taken this Work phase." Now that I think about it, this raises a further question: does it mean resources taken from an action space that has not yet been used, or does it mean taking resources that have not been taken by any player in the work phase so far? Thus, if someone has taken, say, the 3Wood, does this mean Opportunist no longer applies to an as yet untaken 2Wood? Likewise with the Quarries (accumulating stone) and RSf (or any other space that might yield stone)?

Personally, I would rule the former, otherwise the utility of the card is rendered negligible, which I doubt was the intent of the designer.



I'm more confused now as I don’t know what you are referring to in 'the former' case. This is how we ended up playing it: if resource x has been taken at any time physically from a work space, or resulting directly from the action of a work space (eg reed/stone/food), then the Opportunist cannot be used to take an extra resource of resource x.

So for example if any player took the reed, stone, food action, then I could not use the Opportunist to take an extra stone from a stone accumulation space. Or if you took all the wood from the 3 wood space I could not use the Opportunist to take an extra wood from the 2 wood space.

Is that right?

That is how I would interpret it. The “former” case in MisterG’s example doesn’t make any sense to me. Action spaces that haven’t been used are (generally) the only actions you can take, so if his former interpretation were true that would be a meaningless distinction.


Apologies, gentlemen, I was unnecessarily obtuse. By "former" I meant when the owner of Opportunist has not taken a given resource so far that Round, as opposed to any player having taken it, which is the interpretation you both are favoring. Again, I suspect the designer of the card intended the first possibility.
 
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Grant
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MisterG wrote:
grant5 wrote:
duckworp wrote:
MisterG wrote:
duckworp wrote:
shruthless wrote:


My original question disappeared. I was confused as the card says "taken directly from an action space". Reed, stone, food is not taken from the action space, but taken from the supply. So I thought it might mean only resources which physically can be taken from an action space. But it seems it means any resources which are taken by activating an action space, rather than taken physically 'from' an action space.


Note, though, that "taken directly from an action space" is not part of the card text. The conditional requirement is "types of building resources that have not yet been taken this Work phase." Now that I think about it, this raises a further question: does it mean resources taken from an action space that has not yet been used, or does it mean taking resources that have not been taken by any player in the work phase so far? Thus, if someone has taken, say, the 3Wood, does this mean Opportunist no longer applies to an as yet untaken 2Wood? Likewise with the Quarries (accumulating stone) and RSf (or any other space that might yield stone)?

Personally, I would rule the former, otherwise the utility of the card is rendered negligible, which I doubt was the intent of the designer.



I'm more confused now as I don’t know what you are referring to in 'the former' case. This is how we ended up playing it: if resource x has been taken at any time physically from a work space, or resulting directly from the action of a work space (eg reed/stone/food), then the Opportunist cannot be used to take an extra resource of resource x.

So for example if any player took the reed, stone, food action, then I could not use the Opportunist to take an extra stone from a stone accumulation space. Or if you took all the wood from the 3 wood space I could not use the Opportunist to take an extra wood from the 2 wood space.

Is that right?

That is how I would interpret it. The “former” case in MisterG’s example doesn’t make any sense to me. Action spaces that haven’t been used are (generally) the only actions you can take, so if his former interpretation were true that would be a meaningless distinction.


Apologies, gentlemen, I was unnecessarily obtuse. By "former" I meant when the owner of Opportunist has not taken a given resource so far that Round, as opposed to any player having taken it, which is the interpretation you both are favoring. Again, I suspect the designer of the card intended the first possibility.

Oh, ok, what you're suggesting makes more sense now, but I still favor the latter interpretation, otherwise I think the card would say "types of building resources that YOU have not yet been taken this Work phase."
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Christopher Foster
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This discussion made me curious about the card.

According to at least some data sets at Play-Agricola, Opportunist is not only the worst G-Deck occupation, but one of the worst cards of any published deck.
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Geoff Burkman
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cjfoster wrote:
This discussion made me curious about the card.

According to at least some data sets at Play-Agricola, Opportunist is not only the worst G-Deck occupation, but one of the worst cards of any published deck.


Hmm. That would indicate to me that the 2nd interpretation is the "official" one. Bummer. No wonder the card rates so lousy.

P.S. Hi, Chris!
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Christopher Foster
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MisterG wrote:
Hmm. That would indicate to me that the 2nd interpretation is the "official" one. Bummer. No wonder the card rates so lousy.

That's what I was thinking.

MisterG wrote:
P.S. Hi, Chris!

Hey! Less busy with school now, more time for gaming, so here I am.
 
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