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Subject: Kill Credit for indirect damage rss

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Kevin Ames
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I know there are a ton of threads on kill credit and in the FAQ, but I could not find an answer for this particular edge case that came up in one of our game sessions.

If a player character makes an attack on an object that by destroying it removes the final HP from a monster, does the player get credit for the kill?

I already made a ruling and we've moved on, but I am curious what the community thinks.
 
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michael ray
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DallasD wrote:
I know there are a ton of threads on kill credit and in the FAQ, but I could not find an answer for this particular edge case that came up in one of our game sessions.

If a player character makes an attack on an object that by destroying it removes the final HP from a monster, does the player get credit for the kill?

I already made a ruling and we've moved on, but I am curious what the community thinks.


I would say it depends.

If it's someone like the craghart, using a card where destroying an obstacle causes damage to adjacent enemies, then yes.

But, if it's something like a scenario special rule where 'if an obstacle is destroyed, it does 2 damage to all adjacent figures', then no.
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Darren Nakamura
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It might be useful to know which scenario you're talking about, but from this cursory description, I'd say that counts.
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Fito R
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I don't think I understand. Does the "splash" damage come from the ability card used, or is it innate to the obstacle in question? Cause if it's the former, I'd say kill credit goes to whoever used the ability and if it's the latter then no-one gets credit, I'd guess.

edit: 2slow
 
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j ribs
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yes
 
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Kevin Ames
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It was a scenario where the objects existence (an altar) added HP to each enemy (demons). The enemy was down to a single HP and the player character destroyed the altar removing one HP from each enemy causing one to die.
 
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J D
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I would say no credit is given. If it is the scenario I am thinking of
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the scenario ends with the destruction of the arena and all demons are destroyed
 
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Kevin Ames
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Mesclor wrote:
I would say no credit is given. If it is the scenario I am thinking of


It was not it was #22
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Temple of the Elements
 
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Justin Boehm
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DallasD wrote:
It was a scenario where the objects existence (an altar) added HP to each enemy (demons). The enemy was down to a single HP and the player character destroyed the altar removing one HP from each enemy causing one to die.


If it doesn't just cause an auto kill, but actually does damage that kills the enemy (i.e.: if there is a way they could have lived after destroying the altar), then I'd rule credit for the kill goes to the character that caused the damage to the altar. If it's an auto kill, as in by killing the altar, the enemies would die no matter what, then I'd say no one gets kill credit.
 
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michele c
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DallasD wrote:
It was a scenario where the objects existence (an altar) added HP to each enemy (demons). The enemy was down to a single HP and the player character destroyed the altar removing one HP from each enemy causing one to die.


This is the temple of the elements.

I think no, you don't get the credit.

I would house rule that you get it, though.
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Darren Nakamura
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
Oh, hm. It's not that destroying the altars deals damage to the elemental demons, it's that destroying the altars reduces the maximum hit points for the elemental demons. That might change things.
 
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Jeremy Loehr
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If you are talking about scenario 22, the presence of the altars increases their HP cap. Destroying an altar would lower the HP cap. You would lower HP to match the new HP cap, but you would not remove any HP below the cap.

No credit since monster would not die from destroying the altar.
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Kevin Ames
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midgar wrote:
If you are talking about scenario 22, the presence of the altars increases their HP cap. Destroying an altar would lower the HP cap. You would lower HP to match the new HP cap, but you would not remove any HP below the cap.

No credit since monster would not die from destroying the altar.


How would it not die if the amount of damage is NOW equal to the new cap?

Are you saying that by destroying the Altar you also REMOVE one damage from each Demon? RAW adds damage to enemies, not lowers HP. Although a lot of us actually track HP because it's more convenient that's now how RAW technically works.
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Darren Nakamura
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You could definitely kill an elemental demon by destroying the altar. If a demon has maximum HP 11 and it has 10 damage on it, then destroying the altar drops its maximum HP to 10, it's gone. I'm on the fence about kill credit for that, though. I think probably no.
 
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Eric Nielsen
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Hmmmm... since killing a creature is not worth experience in and of itself, then I am making an assumption it is for a personal or combat goal (Kill x elites, Do not kill more than x creatures, etc).

My take is if you cause the creature to be removed from the board, you get credit for the "kill" because it was your strategy that caused their removal - "Hmmm... there is strong magical energy flowing from that portal into those monsters. I bet that if I destroy the portal, it will hurt the monsters..."

Take for instance, if the Tinkerer puts down its 6 point trap and someone pushes a monster into it, the person doing the pushing should get credit for the kill. The Tinkerer also gets xp points from it, but only because the ability that created the trap specifically states the xp gain.
 
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Jay Johnson
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midgar wrote:
If you are talking about scenario 22, the presence of the altars increases their HP cap. Destroying an altar would lower the HP cap. You would lower HP to match the new HP cap, but you would not remove any HP below the cap.

This has been argued before (and I can't remember off the top of my head if there was an official resolution).

If you track damage the way that is actually described in the rulebook, then each time a monster is hit, a damage token (or tokens) are placed on that monster's spot on the envelope. Then when that damage total equals the monster's HP level, that monster is defeated.
Using that method, if you remove the HP bonus from the altar to equal the accumulated damage, that would defeat that monster.
 
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j ribs
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I feel like this would fall under the same category as pushing enemies into traps to kill them.

You didnt do the damage, but ON YOUR TURN, you did something that caused them to die. I'd say it counts.
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Fito R
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ribsies wrote:
I feel like this would fall under the same category as pushing enemies into traps to kill them.

You didnt do the damage, but ON YOUR TURN, you did something that caused them to die. I'd say it counts.
And yet, when the Mindthief possesses an enemy to kill another enemy, it doesn't count as your kill. I'm of the mind that neither would the OP's case.
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Des T.
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The player who last dealt damage to the monster could also claim kill credit, since they dealt the "killing blow". I'd cite ambiguity and let those two players decide it between them.
 
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