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Gloomhaven» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bonus perk when retiring and controlling 2 characters *not* simultaneously rss

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Nadim Boukhira
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I have a question for the hivemind:

This I know: The manual states clearly that when simultaneously controlling two characters (as in solo play) - i.e. when both characters are active during the same scenarios - that their lineage is kept separate, and bonus perks gained during retirement do not accumulate between the two lineages. For all practical purposes, the two characters are treated as being controlled by two different players.

My situation: I control two different characters in the same party, but with two different groups (so we have one super party with players dropping in and out from one session to another). In other words, the two characters I control are never active during the same scenario. So my two characters are evolving more slowly than another player's character when that player is using the same character in both groups. So, in this situation, if my character A retires, and then some scenarios later my character B retires, does my new character B benefit from the bonus perk of A's retirement? My assessment would be yes, since I get the same amount of retirements in the long run if I play the same character in both groups, than if I alternate between two characters, both progressing half as fast in their personal quest.

Am I correct in my assessment?
 
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Scott Wheelock
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Sure. Why not?
 
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Steven Koontz
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Makes sense to me.
 
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Nyles Breecher
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The rules say: "Each time an individual player retires a character, that player also gains one extra perk to apply to all future
characters they create."

So extra perks are added on character creation based on how many characters you, as a player, have retired. (Assuming such characters are never played simultaneously.)
 
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Darren Nakamura
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This is one of the questions that's still debated among the community. I'm of the opinion that your third character (we'll call it Character C) should start with two bonus perks after you've retired Character A and Character B.

Others here would argue you have two lineages, and your Character C would start with only one bonus perk.

That said, if you're asking whether your character B should automatically gain a bonus perk upon Character A's retirement, I think most would agree the answer to that is no. Bonus perks are applied when creating a character, and Character B already existed at the time Character A retired.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Characters A1 and B1 never get bonus perks. A2 starts with 1 bonus perk. Opinion is divided on whether B2 would get 1 bonus perk or 2 - I'm inclined toward 2, but there's no official answer.
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Nadim Boukhira
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Dexter345 wrote:

That said, if you're asking whether your character B should automatically gain a bonus perk upon Character A's retirement, I think most would agree the answer to that is no. Bonus perks are applied when creating a character, and Character B already existed at the time Character A retired.

I was referring to a character C who is created after chatacter B retires, so he would gain 2 perks, one for Chatacter A's retirement, and one for character B's retirement.

I guess we need some sort of official ruling. But I agree with what nbreecher said. This was my interpretation of the rules as written (and I suspect as indended)
 
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I think lineages makes the most sense, almost like reincarnation and carrying over some knowledge of prior lives.

p.48 makes this clear.

Quote:
Each time an individual player retires a character, that player also gains one extra perk to apply to all future
characters they create. This effect is cumulative, so when a player retires their second character, his or her next
character would gain two additional perks. Though this effect is applied to players, if one player is controlling
multiple characters at once in a campaign (e.g., solo play), he or she considers each character lineage they
control a different player for this bonus.


-G
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Jon Olsén
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I would say you only get one. I think the "lineage" rule is quite good and nifty. Only characters created later as a direct effect of an earlier character in that "line" retiring will get the benefit from only that "line".

So:
A1-->A2(1perk)-->A3(2perks)-->A4(3perks)
B1-->b2(1perk)-->b3(2perks)-->b4(3perks) and so on.

Of course, this is wide open for personal interpretation and rules modification to make it fun. But my guess is that this is how it was designed.
 
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My guess as to how it was designed is the opposite. The core rule is simple- a PLAYER gets one park per character they retire. But this runs in to balance issues with solo play- if I control four characters at once, I'll get perks four times as fast as four players controlling one character each. So there's an extra rule about "lineages" which basically boils down to "if you're playing as multiple people, pretend there's multiple fake-players."

But in the case where you're not doing that, lineages are no different from players.

Kind of curious to know what the right answer is.
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Robert Stewart
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Looking at how the game's set up, the scenario play is the core gameplay, and is well defined and has definite right and wrong ways for things to work, while the campaign play is a lot more flexible and tries to allow the campaign to work for just about any circumstances - a stable, reliable, dedicated group; people dropping in and out from session to session; a solo player; a new group starting up; an old group petering out...

The lineage rules explicitly address a situation where one person is playing as though they're two (or more) players - in particular, controlling multiple characters in a given attempt at a scenario - and explicitly doesn't apply to the standard situation where each player creates a single character and plays them until they retire before creating their next character. What's not clear is what happens in various situations where someone has more than one playable character, but only plays with one of them at a time. It could be because someone tried a character and decided they didn't like them, or because someone wants to try a variety of characters over a shorter time rather than waiting for retirement every time.

There's some potential for exploiting the system by playing just the right personal goals for a given scenario, but there's also issues with someone losing their progression perks or progressing much more slowly in the long term if they are treated as separate lineages.
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