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Subject: Movement templates rss

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Garyp
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How do players find the movement gizmos and does this game actually need them. Movement templates generally seem to add a lot of fiddliness to the whole process of moving the minis around.

A lot of skirmish games just have movement distances and you are able to use a tape or a stick marked up in increments. Needing to line up the notches in the bases and then laying out the template and swinging the end piece around sort of looks very clunky.

An unnecessary mechanical complication?


 
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brian
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garypgary wrote:
How do players find the movement gizmos and does this game actually need them. Movement templates generally seem to add a lot of fiddliness to the whole process of moving the minis around.

A lot of skirmish games just have movement distances and you are able to use a tape or a stick marked up in increments. Needing to line up the notches in the bases and then laying out the template and swinging the end piece around sort of looks very clunky.

An unnecessary mechanical complication?



No. There are no notches on the figures, just the vehicles to keep them in a forward momentum line. You only move the leader and the rest of the squad follows. These should be a lot easier than using a tape measure.

And the templates come with the game if that is what you mean by players finding them.
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Greg
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Tape measures can be fiddly too. I would think the biggest issue for either tape or template is terrain and access of the measuring devices. But as Brian said, for the ground troops, you are just using the template for the leaders and the rest of the unit moves up with them to end up within range 1 of the leader. So unlike a lot of games, at least you don't have to measure for every figure moved.
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Derek de Soto
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I like those little plastic measuring devices that have like 2", 4" and 6" sides or whatever the measurements are, they seem easy to handle and not as fiddly as a tape measure.

I have only seen the SW movement stick things in videos, and they look decent enough. I am glad they are not cardboard at least. If you had to measure each mini it might get in the way, but since you only measure from the squad leader then fill in the rest of the troops, I think that is pretty easy.
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Kevin Outlaw
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garypgary wrote:


An unnecessary mechanical complication?



Someone would have to do some serious convincing to make me believe that switching between four measuring devices is quicker and cleaner than using a tape.

Movement itself seems very quick and straightforward, relying more on unit cohesion than anything else, so it seems a bit odd to over-engineer it with the movement rods.

I haven't played, but that's my takeaway from the videos I've seen.
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Garyp
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For our usual table top miniatures games we will often make up rectangular cards marked up with the usual movement lengths - maybe cavalry along one edge, infantry along another, half moves on another and so on. The advantage is when minis get close and space is limited you can slip the appropriate side of the card down between the miniatures without knocking anything out of place while you hold the other end of the card well away from the minis.

Not an issue when minis are spread out but definitely helps when things get up close. I can see the rods getting very fiddly once units get into close combat range.

I found the Runewars movement templates quite cumbersome.

Not a major issue - just interested in players's opinions.

The game looks good.
 
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John Middleton
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Well if we are being truthful, almost all squad based games have you move the leader (or another figure) and then just conform the rest of the squad to them by maintaining coherency.

I know that Bolt Action, Antares, Saga, Lion Rampant, and Dragon Rampant have this explicitly in the rules.


The suppression from getting hit by fire regardless of wounds, LoS from a leader, and all figures counting in cover if majority are or within 1" is also right from Bolt Action and Antares after it.


There seems to be rather a lot "borrowed" here with X-Wing combat cards and dice added.

Not saying that's bad, designers borrow all the time, but this is not some amazing innovation.

Adding in custom dice, sticks, and cards is just FFG's way of looking you into buying only Legion stuff.
 
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Philip Hinton
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I have in the past used string, in three different lengths, one for vehicles, one for infantry and one for support weapons, vey easy to use, can negotiate terrain, buildings etc. And because it's flexible it has the benefit of being able to bend around or up buildings.
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Brave Sir Glen
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Keep in mind that movement tool is designed with a single point that it can be turned up 90 degrees.

This does have gameplay element when moving vehicles. For infantry it does not as you just measure at any 360 degree around infantry.

For vehicle you have to move forward a certain amount then turn based on how far you want to adjust the tool and then forward from that point.

So when movement a vehicle you DO NOT HAVE a free 360 degree arc or even a free x distance anywhere in front arc.
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John Middleton
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Games have done that forever.

You don't need a special rulers for it.



Almost every armor or ship game ever, including Space Marine fro 1989 and Man o War, though they did have cardboard turn templates. But old GW suffered from token and component overload also.

 
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Roberto Lanza
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Having played with templates like in X-Wing and having played with rulers such as Infinity, I will take the templates.

The issue I have with rulers is that people cheat and they are not an exact measure because that is hard to do. I also find it awkward so to reach over with a ruler versus simply laying a template down on the table.

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Kevin Outlaw
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turbocooler wrote:
Having played with templates like in X-Wing and having played with rulers such as Infinity, I will take the templates.

The issue I have with rulers is that people cheat and they are not an exact measure because that is hard to do. I also find it awkward so to reach over with a ruler versus simply laying a template down on the table.



I find that as soon as you're not playing on a flat surface templates are harder to use to get exact measurements.
 
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John Middleton
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I've actually seen far more people cheat with X-Wing templates by not aligning them fully.

If you can't play a game without a person cheating on movement, then they are cheating at everything else.
 
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Eric Jeanjean
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Plastic templates and bases with 2/3mm notches will grand a better precision than cardboard and plastic dots. Anyway the "cheat" here is unimportant since - if i read well -, you're allowed to place your mini anywere on the template if you choose not to fullfill the max move.

Where it can be funny is with the mandatory movements of the vehicles, especially the fast ones. At that time, one may try to gain some angle degree to avoid the MIDW (Map's Invisible but Deadly Wall)
 
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John Middleton
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The thing is that for wargames to work well, especially on boards filled with terrain, you have to fudge movement and placement a bit.

Static dudes on fixed bases have to have a flexible cover system that relies on nearness to cover granting a bonus since the figures can't ever achieve a true LoS cover on their own, aside from being totally behind a building or some such. Legion does this, though it's borrowed from lots of other current games.


Movement is the same. A unit won't crash into a rock or whatever just because a template says so. They are not robots programmed poorly.

That's where lots of gamers get mini gaming totally wrong and it leads to giant bloated rules that make play tedious. Tournament rules that destroy casual play. It's like balancing an MMO for pvp and pve combat with the same stats in that it doesn't work.

Precision is not vital to tabletop gaming and templates just slow it down.
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