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Subject: How Do You Feel About the No Trading Rule? rss

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Tyler Robinson
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Has anyone ever come across reasoning for this rule? Or a good guess as to why? My friends and I have played a few scenarios now and it hasn't come up yet, but I could see it coming up later.

Is it for game balance? I've always thought optimizing a team was one of the most fun aspects of RPGs.

Just curious how people feel about this rule.
 
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Simon Skov
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Great. It gives players autonomy with regards to spending gold in that they don't have to justify a purchase for their character over others. It also provides a money sink when characters retire and keeps gold relevant.
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Scott Wheelock
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I think it’s fine and have never seen a reason to alter it.
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Darren Nakamura
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Been playing with it as written. I don't mind it at all.

Mechanically, one of the oft-cited reasons for it is that without it, loot becomes trivial upon retirement. A retired character gives all of its money and gold to a teammate, retires, and then the newly created character pops into the picture and takes it all back. It messes with the progression.

But if people want to share loot and specifically disallow that particular thing, I don't think it would harm the game much.
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Clayton Threadgill
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I think the main reasoning is that retiring a character should be a loss to the party. In addition to the high level abilities and perks that are lost, all of that character's money and equipment is also gone. If there are no restrictions on trading, then all of that stuff stays in the party. The new character will end up with a full set up top of the line gear instead of whatever they can afford with their starting gold.

Additionally (and without spoiling anything) there are some personal goals that become trivial to complete when money and items are freely traded.
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Cassio Santos Pereira
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I guess you can ask yourself this: when you and your coworkers get your wage, do you pile it up and decide which rent to pay together? hehehe

It's totally fine, never felt like changing it and it looks like a neat mechanism to keep gold relevant, as already mentioned.

I would say it is definitely for balance, but it also feels thematic, even though I understand what you say about optimizing the team. There is plenty of opportunity for that without sharing money, though.
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Clayton Threadgill
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Vedarta wrote:
I guess you can ask yourself this: when you and your coworkers get your wage, do you pile it up and decide which rent to pay together? hehehe

Lived with roommates in college, and with a significant other for many years. Yes, this is exactly what we do - total up the household income and pay the rent and bills together.
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Darren Nakamura
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hooliganj wrote:
Vedarta wrote:
I guess you can ask yourself this: when you and your coworkers get your wage, do you pile it up and decide which rent to pay together? hehehe

Lived with roommates in college, and with a significant other for many years. Yes, this is exactly what we do - total up the household income and pay the rent and bills together.


And then when you graduated, you took all your money out of the bank account and gifted it to the next people who were going to live there, yeah?
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Clayton Threadgill
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Dexter345 wrote:
And then when you graduated, you took all your money out of the bank account and gifted it to the next people who were going to live there, yeah?

No, because I'm a real person who's life goes on, however you imagine the false dichotomy to play out.

I did pay for a new microwave, and steam-cleaned the carpet. Because I'm not an animal.
 
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Brian M
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Its terribly idiotic. "Hmm, I've just opened this chest and gotten an item that's completely useless to me, but would be awesome for my partner and probably save our lives...guess I'll just throw it away".

shake
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Fito R
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StormKnight wrote:
Its terribly idiotic. "Hmm, I've just opened this chest and gotten an item that's completely useless to me, but would be awesome for my partner and probably save our lives...guess I'll just throw it away".

shake
Rejoice! You can sell that shiny new item to the town supply and now the rest of the party has access to it!
Sure, you get gold and they have to pay for it, but that's just your reward for actually taking the risk and time of getting to the chest in the first place.
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Scott Wheelock
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Ugh. I think I’ve unsubscribed from this thread before. I’ve gotta stop weighing in on these things. I get cranky.
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Darren Nakamura
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StormKnight wrote:
Its terribly idiotic. "Hmm, I've just opened this chest and gotten an item that's completely useless to me, but would be awesome for my partner and probably save our lives...guess I'll just throw it away".

shake


Ah yes, the old "throw it away"... into a shopkeeper's hands... while he throws away some of his money in your direction. laugh
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Darren Nakamura
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hooliganj wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
And then when you graduated, you took all your money out of the bank account and gifted it to the next people who were going to live there, yeah?

No, because I'm a real person who's life goes on


I think that's kind of the point. These characters continue to exist in your world after they retire. You're not controlling them any more, but they're not going to want to give up all their riches just because they completed their life goals.
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Jay Johnson
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The only variation I've been tempted to implement was allowing a character to sell a newly looted item to another character for 75% of the list price.

Gives the selling character a bit more gold than they would have gotten selling the item in town, and saves the buying character that much gold.

Since it is limited to newly looted items, it can't really be cheesed on retirement and doesn't upset game balance all that much.
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Cassio Santos Pereira
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StormKnight wrote:
Its terribly idiotic. "Hmm, I've just opened this chest and gotten an item that's completely useless to me, but would be awesome for my partner and probably save our lives...guess I'll just throw it away".

shake


Well, that's not money on your pockets! If I recall correctly, when you open a chest that contains an item, you choose which character in the group takes it. That's the way we played, and I recently saw confirmation of that in the rule book looking for something else, so almost sure you don't need to through the good for your mate item away.
 
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Cassio Santos Pereira
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hooliganj wrote:
Vedarta wrote:
I guess you can ask yourself this: when you and your coworkers get your wage, do you pile it up and decide which rent to pay together? hehehe

Lived with roommates in college, and with a significant other for many years. Yes, this is exactly what we do - total up the household income and pay the rent and bills together.


That's why I said coworker, not significant other or room mates.
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Victor Ferreira
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If you don't think it makes sense, just house rule it. Both games I'm in have houseruled it, and we're all doing fine. People talk about stuff like this screwing with the game balance, but Gloomhaven is honestly just not fragile enough for it's balance to be destroyed by something so relatively trivial.
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Fito R
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Vedarta wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
Its terribly idiotic. "Hmm, I've just opened this chest and gotten an item that's completely useless to me, but would be awesome for my partner and probably save our lives...guess I'll just throw it away".

shake


Well, that's not money on your pockets! If I recall correctly, when you open a chest that contains an item, you choose which character in the group takes it. That's the way we played, and I recently saw confirmation of that in the rule book looking for something else, so almost sure you don't need to through the good for your mate item away.
Uhhhhhh what? Mind if I see your rulebook? Cause mine sure doesn't say that.
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Sam Bartholomew
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Yeah, items go to the person who opened the chest. Designs go to the supply. If you get something out of an event, you'd discuss, but early bird gets the worm otherwise.
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that Matt
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mrjane wrote:
Has anyone ever come across reasoning for this rule? Or a good guess as to why?

No, this particular rule in Gloomhaven has never been discussed before. You're the first!

https://boardgamegeek.com/spsearch.php?objectid=174430&objec...
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michele c
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mrjane wrote:

Just curious how people feel about this rule.


It is completely ridiculous and poor game design
 
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Ken Brenner
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Not only does it not bother me, but it makes things more exciting. I feel like every decision that was made was to preserve the integrity of the “puzzle“ in battle. Gloomhaven is only part RPG. It’s also part euro game and part puzzle. The euro side is that reources matter, and what you prioritize makes you different from another player. As for the puzzle part, the informal time limit that starts ticking down when you start a mission is effective BECAUSE you can’t share loot and items. Therefore, I might make the decision to go grab loot when it’s not ideal for my party in order to buy items I need later.

I think the game tries to make it very clear that you are mercenaries, not a typical RPG party where you are trying to save the world. The motivations to share are not there. You are teaming up out of convenience. You are not going to backstab your teammates because they make your life easier, but you absolutely are going to be looking out for number one when your life is not in danger, and even maybe when it is.

I think the moment we try to start comparing gloomhaven to real life or any other RPG or video game, it doesn’t work. Gloomhaven is a unique mixture and it is time to accept that.
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Hugh Tran
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i could be wrong, but IIRC, worst case scenario you can just sell an item someone else wants back to the item supply where a different player can buy it back?
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Dean L
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hooliganj wrote:
Vedarta wrote:
I guess you can ask yourself this: when you and your coworkers get your wage, do you pile it up and decide which rent to pay together? hehehe

Lived with roommates in college, and with a significant other for many years. Yes, this is exactly what we do - total up the household income and pay the rent and bills together.


That's not what he asked.

He asked if for people working at the same place, you put all the money together and choose which different rents you pay. Not if all working at different places, you pool money together and pay the same rent.

I'm also assuming you all paid the same proportion of the rent? And did just pay proportionate to what you earned?

The rule works, and it's part of the game balance. Some characters are better at getting loot than others. Some characters are better at getting XP than others. These are two lines that are often balanced across.

What I really don't get is why lots of people pool and share gold, but no-one seems to pool and share XP out evenly? I mean it's the exact same thing: a gated progression method where different characters will get different amounts each scenario. It would suck to pool one and not the other as the Spellweaver would continue to get ahead on XP while the Scoundral would be lower, and yet the Spellweaver then gets access to all the gold the Scoundral looted too?
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