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Rising Sun» Forums » Rules

Subject: Stealing bushi with way of katana war upgrade question rss

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T Tardi
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If during the war phase someone uses jorogumo to take control of my bushi and i have way of the katana war upgrade making my bushi 2 force. Does the "stolen" busi still have 2 force or does it go back to 1 since its not technically mine
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Travis Geery
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Something like this was asked before about shinto I believe. The other player is stealing a figure, not your upgrades for said figure type.
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H Seijuro
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Well, the rulebook only says this on page 7 :

Quote:
Season cards are divided into 3 Seasons: Spring, Summer, and Autumn, bringing
varied abilities to the Clans who acquire them.


So I'd go with : it is only 1 for the clan that stole your bushi.

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Richard Dickson
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Way of the Katana upgrades your figures. If an opponent steals it, it's not your figure anymore.
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Niall Smyth
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I don’t think this is that easy to solve. It literally is your figure. It’s your colour, and will return to your control soon.

I have no idea how to solve this one without a ruling.
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Zoltán Dudás
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Interesting question.
I also dont think its that clear. Ownership and control are not necessarily the same. Its a matter of definition.
The figure is still yours, aka you own it. You just dont control it for a period.

Same could occur in Chaos in the Old World, but there was a rulebook section which makes it clear that they do retain their statistics even if controlled by others.

I could easily imagine the same design intent here.

I dont have the game yet, so dunno which one of the two interpretations is more in align for this game, but it might need a dev ruling.
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Bobby Sanmiguel
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The "take control" wording makes me think that it would still have upgrades. It's still your opponents figure, you're just controlling it for the battle.
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Brett Smith
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It only applies to the figures you own, since you dont own that figure for the temporary battle at that moment it does not get the bonus.
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Zoltán Dudás
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smith2332 wrote:
It only applies to the figures you own, since you dont own that figure for the temporary battle at that moment it does not get the bonus.


Can you quote exact wording that supports this?

That it applies to owned figures and that owndership is lost when you lose control?

Unless this is stated clearly somewhere, then its just your personal interpretation.
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PK Levine
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I interpret it as no, the bushi is treated as <insert stealing clan>'s bushi for all intents and purposes. Your upgrades no longer apply, and their upgrades now do.

That said, this should definitely be in the next FAQ, because I can't "disprove" the alternate interpretation.
 
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Casey Smith
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Spike225BGG wrote:
smith2332 wrote:
It only applies to the figures you own, since you dont own that figure for the temporary battle at that moment it does not get the bonus.


Can you quote exact wording that supports this?

That it applies to owned figures and that owndership is lost when you lose control?

Unless this is stated clearly somewhere, then its just your personal interpretation.


Its literally answered in the third post in this thread.
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A Frag
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Making the argument that the figure is still my color and it technically is my figure is a bit of over-zealous rules lawyering in my opinion. If someone steals the figure it’s no longer yours it’s theirs. Your upgrades only apply to your figures. I would consider this on resolved. Perhaps there will be an official answer given, but I would be surprised if it was differenT than this.
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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Without the rulebook, this would be an ambiguous case of owner vs controller shenanigans, but the Monster's pack rulebook is pretty clear on this : the borrowed bushi "counts as a figure of your clan for all intents and purposes".
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Zoltán Dudás
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SwissQueso wrote:

Its literally answered in the third post in this thread.


That the upgrade is affecting the clan that bought it? Yea, sure. That doesnt answer my whole question though. In the sentence you are refering to is nothing about how ownership and control of clan figures is handled in this game.

afrag wrote:
Making the argument that the figure is still my color and it technically is my figure is a bit of over-zealous rules lawyering in my opinion. If someone steals the figure it’s no longer yours it’s theirs. Your upgrades only apply to your figures. I would consider this on resolved. Perhaps there will be an official answer given, but I would be surprised if it was differenT than this.


If you are used to complex games and seen and played games for both interpretations and for games where this is clearly detailed in the rulebook, than there isnt really anything over-zelaous about it.
Both interpretations can work. Both are fine.


Dystopian wrote:
Without the rulebook, this would be an ambiguous case of owner vs controller shenanigans, but the Monster's pack rulebook is pretty clear on this : the borrowed bushi "counts as a figure of your clan for all intents and purposes".


Cool. Thank you!
 
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A Frag
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I own over 100 games ranging from very complex to simple. This doesn’t include roughly 40 custom legacy MTG decks. I understand that many games make a distinction between ownership and control, but this one does not. The cards themselves provide all the distinction necessary here.
 
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