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Viticulture Essential Edition» Forums » Variants

Subject: Start with more workers ? rss

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Nicolas Esselin
Réunion
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First try yesterday evening.
Good feeling with the game.

But we all feel that the start is very very slow and getting new workers is mandatory.
What do you think about starting with one worker more ?

Nico
 
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Greg Darcy
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Yes the start is slow. Thematically so. You start with very few resources and you must struggle in the early years to make ends meet. If you do it well, you find yourself in a good place.
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A C
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Nicofromkra wrote:
First try yesterday evening.
Good feeling with the game.

But we all feel that the start is very very slow and getting new workers is mandatory.
What do you think about starting with one worker more ?

Nico

The game will last 7 years*, more or less. (I have ended in 6, some times in 8, never in 5 or 9). Starting with more workers would speed this up, but would definitely feel less satisfactory. What I enjoy most about this game is woring with what I have got, seeing how others have a different strategy yet still our scores are usually close.
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Iain
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Nicolas,

I'd probably give it more than 1 game before you decide to house rule the game.

It's very typical for these types of games - it gives additional strategic decisions early in the game. "Do I take an extra worker now, or keep taking actions to accelerate my vineyard". You would effectively be removing a significant portion of the decision making from the game.

As Aeronout said, once you get proficient the game should be finishing in around 7-8 rounds. If you're giving everyone 'free' turns it would probably end sooner, and for me the timing is perfect.
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kos blaat
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AernoutMJC wrote:
Nicofromkra wrote:


But we all feel that the start is very very slow and getting new workers is mandatory.


Nico

The game will last 7 seasons, more or less. (I have ended in 6, some times in 8, never in 5 or 9).

Either we disagree on what a season is, or you play extremely well. I have trouble reaching 20 VP in V:EE in 7 YEARS. A season for me is Spring, another is Summer.
 
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kos blaat
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It's not that the start is slow, it's that you run out of workers fast. This only means that the first years fly by. The more workers the more time each season takes.
 
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Iain
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kosterix wrote:
It's not that the start is slow, it's that you run out of workers fast. This only means that the first years fly by. The more workers the more time each season takes.


I think he means it is slow from a 'ramping up your engine' point of view i.e. you start slowly building up your vineyard, which would be helped by more workers (but which wouldn't necessarily help the enjoyment or pace of the game).
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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This is typical of any engine-building game. As mentioned already: the early turns are slow in that you don't have much to do. So, they go by really fast...because you don't have much to work with.
 
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Jeff K
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This would make the game much less tense. As with most WP, everyone will more or less be wanting to do the same thing at the same time. In the beginning of the game, for example, 'train worker' is popular.

However, good players who can play "off-rythym" (ie use a timing that other players aren't) are always rewarded. This variant would nerf that too much.

Plus, there are cards that allow for training. Those would be nerfed as well. Not a good idea, IMO.

EDIT: also just realized, some of the mamas and papas give you extra workers as opposed to other resources, if you are playing V:EE. That would seriously slant the starting resources. It's not always a given that you want all 6 workers. With an extra worker variant and the right M&P cards, you'd start with 5, which would potentially be a game breaker.
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Byron S
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Ventura
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kosterix wrote:
AernoutMJC wrote:
Nicofromkra wrote:


But we all feel that the start is very very slow and getting new workers is mandatory.


Nico

The game will last 7 seasons, more or less. (I have ended in 6, some times in 8, never in 5 or 9).

Either we disagree on what a season is, or you play extremely well. I have trouble reaching 20 VP in V:EE in 7 YEARS. A season for me is Spring, another is Summer.

7 years is typical. 7 seasons would be ridiculous. I'm sure it's mistyped.
 
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runtsta wrote:
kosterix wrote:
AernoutMJC wrote:
Nicofromkra wrote:


But we all feel that the start is very very slow and getting new workers is mandatory.


Nico

The game will last 7 seasons, more or less. (I have ended in 6, some times in 8, never in 5 or 9).

Either we disagree on what a season is, or you play extremely well. I have trouble reaching 20 VP in V:EE in 7 YEARS. A season for me is Spring, another is Summer.

7 years is typical. 7 seasons would be ridiculous. I'm sure it's mistyped.

Years, fair enough.

7 times the same season (winter) is what I meant.
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Eric C

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No, it’s fine as is, there are crucial opening rounds. There are ao many options, get yellow and blue cards, use your opening resources to your asvantage when possible! It makes you think and plan. It’s a building economy game. If you want to make wine in turn 1, then sure try more workers; I think it takes away from theme and point of the game! My group was excited by the fact that we had to choose wisely in most of us save a worker to train another in round one. The first two rounds go by very quickly for that reason .
 
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Jennifer Neumann
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I am also looking forward to accelerate the game in that sense that winemaking is improved and you do not need to spend 90 min on anything else. I wondered whether one should play with all buildings already established on your own layer board and play four rounds only... the Blitz variant =D
it annoys me that you do not get direct money for your wine, onky income. I always feel that I am running out of money all the time.
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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J3n1 wrote:
it annoys me that you do not get direct money for your wine, onky income. I always feel that I am running out of money all the time.

Sounds like you have not played Tuscany. You can directly sell wine as one of your Winter actions. No residual from that (no ongoing contracts were signed), but you do get immediate cash.
 
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jamie erskine
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J3n1 wrote:
I wondered whether one should play with all buildings already established on your own layer board and play four rounds only... the Blitz variant =D


The biggest downside to this, that I can't think of, is that it would vastly increase the luck of your hand. Example: One player lands 2 chardonnay and the other 2 pinot's. With no need to build structures first, some vine cards become vastly more powerful.
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Eric Hogue
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claudermilk wrote:
J3n1 wrote:
it annoys me that you do not get direct money for your wine, onky income. I always feel that I am running out of money all the time.

Sounds like you have not played Tuscany. You can directly sell wine as one of your Winter actions. No residual from that (no ongoing contracts were signed), but you do get immediate cash.


My recollection is that you get points, not cash.
 
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Byron S
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EricHogue wrote:
claudermilk wrote:
J3n1 wrote:
it annoys me that you do not get direct money for your wine, onky income. I always feel that I am running out of money all the time.

Sounds like you have not played Tuscany. You can directly sell wine as one of your Winter actions. No residual from that (no ongoing contracts were signed), but you do get immediate cash.


My recollection is that you get points, not cash.

Yes, you get points for selling wines in winter. You can trade grapes for 3 Lira each in summer, though.
 
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Chris Laudermilk
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EricHogue wrote:
claudermilk wrote:
J3n1 wrote:
it annoys me that you do not get direct money for your wine, onky income. I always feel that I am running out of money all the time.

Sounds like you have not played Tuscany. You can directly sell wine as one of your Winter actions. No residual from that (no ongoing contracts were signed), but you do get immediate cash.


My recollection is that you get points, not cash.

D'oh! You're right. Faulty memory.
 
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