Mac Mcleod
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The video was released after an internal investigation cleared the officer.

He was clearly beating her and not subduing her after 16 seconds into the video. He was also apparently giving her instructions which were impossible to comply to (sort of like the guy who was shot to death a couple months ago) in telling her to put her hands behind her back while he was holding her hands.

Hope she nails the department for a big pile of money.



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Trent Boardgamer
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Well, she certainly is subdued.

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J J
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Sickening, as usual.

Dismissal and gaol just aren't enough, and every other cop involved has to go as well, especially those who cleared him.
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Michael Pustilnik
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He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.
 
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Daniel Kearns
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MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

She’s black. Pretty clear cut case.
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Peter Karis
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MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

If you twist someone arms behind their back by brute force when they are clearly resisting it, chances are they get more seriously injured compared to getting hit with a baton.

When she finally does what she's told to do, i.e. puts her hands behind her back, the situation is resolved. I wonder why she didn't do that in the first place? Also the video doesn't show how the situation started, and it doesn't have any sound for the first few seconds, so it's really a poor piece of evidence either way.
 
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MacKaris wrote:
MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

If you twist someone arms behind their back by brute force when they are clearly resisting it, chances are they get more seriously injured compared to getting hit with a baton.

When she finally does what she's told to do, i.e. puts her hands behind her back, the situation is resolved. I wonder why she didn't do that in the first place? Also the video doesn't show how the situation started, and it doesn't have any sound for the first few seconds, so it's really a poor piece of evidence either way.


Hard to stay subdued when someone is bashing your knees with a baton. Laughs, this is a case of the vicious cycle;

Stay still
Bam
Movement due to pain
Stay Still
Bam
Movement due to pain
....
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Jamie Hankins
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For a nation that prides itself on its liberty, America sure does have a casual acceptance/apathy regarding heavily authoritarian and violent police enforcement.
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Elias Någonsson
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As sickening as this is, i think the "beating, not subduing" is creating a false dichotomy where somehow all the cop violence thats not shown to be "beating" gets leeway for "just subduing".

And re: "we dont have video on how it started" thats a standard applied extremely inconsistently, or rather, extremely consistently in favor of cops regardless of situation.

If I tape myself shooting a cop, the excuse "he was trying to murder me while screaming "i have no legal right to do this", the tape just didnt cover that" wont hold up in court.
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Elias Någonsson
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Wight1984 wrote:
For a nation that prides itself on its liberty, America sure does have a casual acceptance/apathy regarding heavily authoritarian and violent police enforcement.


Well, only when it comes to beating black and poor people, not when it comes to asking white people to see a drivers license.
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Professor of Pain
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MacKaris wrote:
MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

If you twist someone arms behind their back by brute force when they are clearly resisting it, chances are they get more seriously injured compared to getting hit with a baton.

When she finally does what she's told to do, i.e. puts her hands behind her back, the situation is resolved. I wonder why she didn't do that in the first place? Also the video doesn't show how the situation started, and it doesn't have any sound for the first few seconds, so it's really a poor piece of evidence either way.

Oh for fuck's sake!
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David Dearlove
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MacKaris wrote:
MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

If you twist someone arms behind their back by brute force when they are clearly resisting it, chances are they get more seriously injured compared to getting hit with a baton.

When she finally does what she's told to do, i.e. puts her hands behind her back, the situation is resolved. I wonder why she didn't do that in the first place? Also the video doesn't show how the situation started, and it doesn't have any sound for the first few seconds, so it's really a poor piece of evidence either way.

It's like patriotism. My tribe right or wrong. I hope I never meet you in real life., because you are dangerous.
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I find it hard to imagine NOT struggling and fighting back, just instinctively...
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Mac Mcleod
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MacKaris wrote:
MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

If you twist someone arms behind their back by brute force when they are clearly resisting it, chances are they get more seriously injured compared to getting hit with a baton.

When she finally does what she's told to do, i.e. puts her hands behind her back, the situation is resolved. I wonder why she didn't do that in the first place? Also the video doesn't show how the situation started, and it doesn't have any sound for the first few seconds, so it's really a poor piece of evidence either way.


She was compliant and subdued at 16 seconds. Then he hit her in the knee with a metal rod. Later, he got in a completely unneeded butt hit.

In each case he hit her more for moving after he hit her unnecessarily.

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Wight1984 wrote:
For a nation that prides itself on its liberty, America sure does have a casual acceptance/apathy regarding heavily authoritarian and violent police enforcement.

That is because the USA is a police state, Americans like many people who live in an authoritarian regime have been brainwashed to believe they live in the land of the free.
The fact that there are Americans who actualy defend the actions of the police officer here, show how much people have been brainwashed to defend the oppressor.
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Marcel
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MacKaris wrote:
MikePustilnik wrote:
He is stronger, he could have put handcuffs on her. He did not need to use his club at all.

I don't understand how an investigation could have cleared him.

If you twist someone arms behind their back by brute force when they are clearly resisting it, chances are they get more seriously injured compared to getting hit with a baton.

When she finally does what she's told to do, i.e. puts her hands behind her back, the situation is resolved. I wonder why she didn't do that in the first place? Also the video doesn't show how the situation started, and it doesn't have any sound for the first few seconds, so it's really a poor piece of evidence either way.

If somebody is beating you up, all you think of is defending yourself against your attacker that's nature. You try not defending yourself when someone is beating you up.
Tthis is why normal police officers do not beat people up. Only sadistic assholes beat people up and tell them to do something other then defend themselves at the same time, so they can claim the person refused to comply.
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J.D. Hall
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mag74b wrote:
Wight1984 wrote:
For a nation that prides itself on its liberty, America sure does have a casual acceptance/apathy regarding heavily authoritarian and violent police enforcement.

That is because the USA is a police state, Americans like many people who live in an authoritarian regime have been brainwashed to believe they live in the land of the free.
The fact that there are Americans who actualy defend the actions of the police officer here, show how much people have been brainwashed to defend the oppressor.

(sigh) When people see these videos and make the instant assumption that this is how all police interact with all black people or men or Asian transgenders, there is no logical way to defend or even reason.

There are literally millions of police-civilian interactions every day in the US. Millions. Given that people are imperfect, is it realistic to think each and every one of those interactions will transpire in a satisfactory manner to all parties involved? There are bad cops, to be certain. And what needs changing are the regulations and laws governing police-civilian interactions. I've harped on this many times, but long ago I was a police reporter for several newspapers. They were and are trained to expect every interaction to possibly involve deadly force, not an unrealistic expectation given the number of firearms in this country. That type of training needs to be eliminated and replaced. Police departments also need to interact on a more positive manner with minority populations, another place where training will help. The laws themselves need to be sharpened, instead of allowing police to justify any action by saying they felt threatened.

Was this an awful misuse of police power? You betcha. The cop never should have been cleared; instead, he should have been fired, pension taken away, and charged with felony assault and battery with a deadly weapon and abuse of governmental power. But I can also make money if I bet that more cases of police brutality actually lead to the dismissal if not prosecution of police officers. Those cases, however, rarely make the news because the victim does not feel the need to publicize it.

I do want to apologize to our non-American posters for having to put up with a group of mindless sheep slaving away in a police state dutifully reguritating the Dear Leader's latest bit of bombast.

Oh second thought, fuck that.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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You missed the point man.

I don't think even the most extreme person would say all police officers behave like this.

What is true is that all police officers support and protect officers like this. We have too many videos of "good" officers standing by while "bad" officers kill people, lie under oath, not report racist emails, violate civil rights, and break the law.

We need to train them too aggressively remove officers like this from the police force before they move up in the hierarchy and poison Junior officers below them. We need to aggressively remove officers like this before they corrupt the officers around them.

When a police officer commits a crime they should be more likely to go to jail not less likely.

If the law were enforced upon police officers sooner, they would not become so callous and corrupt.

---

This video reminds me strongly of when the four white police officers held down the staggering drunk but peaceful black guy in a chair at the police station while the white police superviser (captain I think) punched him over and over in the face saying "stop resisting" just before each punch- ultimately blinding the guy in one eye and putting him in the hospital for other injuries.

(I wonder how that one turned out. Were the four officers "cleared" or perhaps suspended with pay for a couple weeks? Did anything at all happen to the police supervisor?

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Trent Boardgamer
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maxo-texas wrote:
You missed the point man.

I don't think even the most extreme person would say all police officers behave like this.

What is true is that all police officers support and protect officers like this. We have too many videos of "good" officers standing by while "bad" officers kill people, lie under oath, not report racist emails, violate civil rights, and break the law.

We need to train them too aggressively remove officers like this from the police force before they move up in the hierarchy and poison Junior officers below them. We need to aggressively remove officers like this before they corrupt the officers around them.

When a police officer commits a crime they should be more likely to go to jail not less likely.

If the law were enforced upon police officers sooner, they would not become so callous and corrupt.

---

This video reminds me strongly of when the four white police officers held down the staggering drunk but peaceful black guy in a chair at the police station while the white police superviser (captain I think) punched him over and over in the face saying "stop resisting" just before each punch- ultimately blinding the guy in one eye and putting him in the hospital for other injuries.

(I wonder how that one turned out. Were the four officers "cleared" or perhaps suspended with pay for a couple weeks? Did anything at all happen to the police supervisor?



I 100% agree, however appreciate the complexities that explain the reality of why this is occurring.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Well, for one thing being a police officer repels certain people and attracts certain other people from the start.

Some value the law.
Some hate crime.
Some enjoy the power to ignore the law.
Some enjoy the power they gain over other citizens.
Some enjoy the respect they get from other citizens.
Some enjoy the free benny's (like free food, high paying security jobs at big concerts and events).
Some value justice.
Some enjoy the excitement of the job.
Some like the great pensions.

---

And the environment is corrosive.
I think the "drug war" is incredibly corrosive to police officers.
I think the number of guns in u.s. society is corrosive to police officers.
And I think there was a really bad training course back around 2000 that pushed "get home alive- shoot to kill" which has since been banned. That training needs to be undone.

And I suspect this kind of thing has been happening a long time (police officers regularly beat poor people during the depression to "move them on down the road" instead of arresting them). What's different now is that everyone has a video camera so the officer can't lie and get away with it any more.

But the ideal is a Joe Friday and Bill Gannon and I have to believe some kids growing up in the late 60's and early 70s wanted to be that kind of cop.

speaking of which...
https://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/dragnet.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Friday

But something has happened. Police officers have changed from public servants striving to maintain the peace to Aggressive, Loud people ordering the public around.

(and yea, I know dragnet was pro police propaganda and police then were just as violent as police now. There were just fewer cameras.)

To some degree, we need to change the culture that's always been there.

So we need *more* cameras, not fewer. And we really need an independent group to survey those videos. Correction for officers should start *small* with required extra training courses for observed minor and medium violations and escalate into administrative punishment, firing, and even prison time. The police need watchers who are not police officers to keep them in line.
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J.D. Hall
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maxo-texas wrote:
Well, for one thing being a police officer repels certain people and attracts certain other people from the start.

Some value the law.
Some hate crime.
Some enjoy the power to ignore the law.
Some enjoy the power they gain over other citizens.
Some enjoy the respect they get from other citizens.
Some enjoy the free benny's (like free food, high paying security jobs at big concerts and events).
Some value justice.
Some enjoy the excitement of the job.
Some like the great pensions.

---

And the environment is corrosive.
I think the "drug war" is incredibly corrosive to police officers.
I think the number of guns in u.s. society is corrosive to police officers.
And I think there was a really bad training course back around 2000 that pushed "get home alive- shoot to kill" which has since been banned. That training needs to be undone.

And I suspect this kind of thing has been happening a long time (police officers regularly beat poor people during the depression to "move them on down the road" instead of arresting them). What's different now is that everyone has a video camera so the officer can't lie and get away with it any more.

But the ideal is a Joe Friday and Bill Gannon and I have to believe some kids growing up in the late 60's and early 70s wanted to be that kind of cop.

speaking of which...
https://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/dragnet.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Friday

But something has happened. Police officers have changed from public servants striving to maintain the peace to Aggressive, Loud people ordering the public around.

(and yea, I know dragnet was pro police propaganda and police then were just as violent as police now. There were just fewer cameras.)

To some degree, we need to change the culture that's always been there.

So we need *more* cameras, not fewer. And we really need an independent group to survey those videos. Correction for officers should start *small* with required extra training courses for observed minor and medium violations and escalate into administrative punishment, firing, and even prison time. The police need watchers who are not police officers to keep them in line.

Oh, I totally agree. I was responding to one of the foreign posters who intimated that the US is a police state and we Americans are sheep being led to the slaughter.

Changing the culture of police departments is a major issue. Glad you pointed that out. The Thin Blue Line is real, pervasive, and hard to break. In part, it's there because police officers are not really the most admired individuals in the US. Whenever you call one, something bad has happened, and 99 times out of 100, the cop(s) can't fix it right away. Contrast this with firefighters, who, when your house is on fire, they come over and put it out. Fixed (in a way). And then there is the history of police abuse, violence, and corruption that goes back to colonial days. It's a brutal occupation, mentally as well as physically, and I'm not surprised that some cops go bad. There needs to be recognition of this as we break down the wall. There are many, many other issues as well, from racism to patrolling (used to be the cops walked a beat, now they drive 100 miles a day in an air-conditioned car because neighborhoods are more spread out). It's a tough question.
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