Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
44 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: Dudes on a map with non-military victory conditions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
A P
Wales
Newport
Other
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello all
I really enjoy a good dudes on a map type wargame, like A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition). I love having my own territory that I can grow and learn to care about, and protect from the other players. However, I'm looking for such games where there is a military element but that violence is only one of several possible paths to victory - so, in GoT, you have to conquer things to win as that's the only victory condition. There's no way to win by turtling up and building a wonderful capital or whatever.

So far there are two games I'm aware of that definitely allow this: Civilization, which I already have, and Twilight Imperium, which I would like and may well eventually obtain, though the price tag is putting me off.

I'm looking for the following essential criteria:
-Features a map or at least territory (can be space and/or a modular "map" of tiles like in Catan or TI)
-Military conquest is possible.
-At least one non-military victory condition.

I'm not particularly put off by the thought of the game being long or complex, though ideally I'd be looking for games that also fulfil the following desirable criteria
- don't take forever (i.e. sub 4 hours)
- can play 2 player
- don't cost the earth in terms of ££.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
mbmb
Inis features 3 different victory conditions:
- have Control over 6 opposing Units
- have control over areas with 6 specific buildings
- be present in 6 locations

You might need to fight for control to achieve these goals but maybe you don't consider them militaristic per se
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A P
Wales
Newport
Other
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nvsg wrote:
Inis features 3 different victory conditions:
- have Control over 6 opposing Units
- have control over areas with 6 specific buildings
- be present in 6 locations

You might need to fight for control to achieve these goals but maybe you don't consider them militaristic per se


Thanks. That does sound broadly militaristic to me, but do you build the "specific buildings" yourself?

I should probably also add to the original post that I would prefer an historic theme, but would accept fantasy or sci fi too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
Norway
Oslo
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scythe is the obvious answer: End condition has to do with achievements, two of which involve combat victories, but victory is based on money, popularity, resources and area control.
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jan
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
mbmb
Figaro123 wrote:
nvsg wrote:
Inis features 3 different victory conditions:
- have Control over 6 opposing Units
- have control over areas with 6 specific buildings
- be present in 6 locations

You might need to fight for control to achieve these goals but maybe you don't consider them militaristic per se


Thanks. That does sound broadly militaristic to me, but do you build the "specific buildings" yourself?

I should probably also add to the original post that I would prefer an historic theme, but would accept fantasy or sci fi too.


Yes, you do build the buildings yourself and opponents can build them, too (they don't belong to a specific faction). It has a card drafting mechanic that determines your actions for the round (like TI but with no secondary ability). Out of 16 (iirc) cards there are only 2 that let you attack directly. So it's more about area Control with some fights along the way and you can totally win without attacking someone.
But yes, all those victory conditions are broadly militaristic in a way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomáš Sládek
Czech Republic
Brno
flag msg tools
badge
DOES NOT COMPUTE ||| EXTERMINATE ||| EXTERMINAAAAAATE
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Figaro123 wrote:
nvsg wrote:
Inis features 3 different victory conditions:
- have Control over 6 opposing Units
- have control over areas with 6 specific buildings
- be present in 6 locations

You might need to fight for control to achieve these goals but maybe you don't consider them militaristic per se


Thanks. That does sound broadly militaristic to me, but do you build the "specific buildings" yourself?

I should probably also add to the original post that I would prefer an historic theme, but would accept fantasy or sci fi too.


Inis is broadly historic (art, names) as it draws from Celtic myths, but the gameplay itself really isn't. I don't think it's what you are looking for, but I'd give i a try if you can. Although militaristic isn't a word I'd use to describe Inis (it's probably the least confrontational dudes-on-a-map game I've played, in part because you can and often want to coexist in the same territory with other players and fighting is mostly lose-lose for the parties involved), but you don't really have "your own" territory for long and buildings don't have an owner either and there's no sense of "building up" - it's all very fluid.

I'd perhaps recommend Runewars - it's technically possible to win without doing battle, but it is somewhat unlikely if you don't use the 'epic' variant where each tile has an encounter for your hero.

Scythe is a better choice, it's more of a cold war where actual battles aren't all that common. I often fight only once or twice per game.

The recent Lords of Hellas also has non-combat victory conditions, although you'll likely need to fight along the way. My last 3p game however ended with me winning by only ever having fought a player once, in the last turn. Building up a wonderful something and turtling on it is literally one of the victory conditions - but someone's gonna come to try and knock you down for sure
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dom B.
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
In Cyclades (Greek antiquity), you need 2 metropolises to win. You can:
*build a metropolis (economic development)
*conquer a metropolis (warfare)
*gain a metropolis with 4 philosopher cards (intellectual achievement)
Does not play great with two, though.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomáš Sládek
Czech Republic
Brno
flag msg tools
badge
DOES NOT COMPUTE ||| EXTERMINATE ||| EXTERMINAAAAAATE
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dom22 wrote:
In Cyclades (Greek antiquity), you need 2 metropolises to win. You can:
*build a metropolis (economic development)
*conquer a metropolis (warfare)
*gain a metropolis with 4 philosopher cards (intellectual achievement)
Does not play great with two, though.


I've never seen a game where someone gets to build both two metropolises, however. Always someone comes an snatches the second one from another player sooner.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A P
Wales
Newport
Other
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the recommendations so far.

I would probably class it as military if the victory condition could theoretically be obtained peacefully but where conquest is the best or at least a strong way to achieve it. e.g. if you win by controlling X areas, and conquest lets you take areas from your opponents, then that's military, even if you could also colonise empty areas in theory. Similarly if "population" is an objective, and you can increase your population by conquering your opponents' areas, then that's probably not much of a non-military victory.

As an aside, I actually played a game of GoT where the winner didn't fight a single battle. They simply walked to victory whilst everyone else fought amongst themselves, and nobody listened to me when I told them it would happen (I was on the other side of the board). Very unsatisfying.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United Kingdom
Southampton
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Impulse is a fairly abstract sci-fi 4X card game for 2-6p. It's probably best with 3-4p, but it's good 2p too. It's fairly cheap, fairly quick. It has a modular map made of cards in a hex pattern. You need 20 points to win and you can gain those points in multiple different ways:

Trading a card from your hand
Mining minerals and refining them for points
Having cruisers on one of the 6 edges of the sector core (the central card on the map)
Landing transports on the sector core
Winning a battle
Destroying enemy ships

You can also win by eliminating everyone else.

Which of these you are able to do will vary from game to game depending on what card you pick up and what your opponents do. It is possible to win without pursuing a military strategy but you'll always need some military strength to defend yourself.

There is a new version that is in the process of being sent to KS backers, the old version is still available at the moment (in the UK anyway).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomáš Sládek
Czech Republic
Brno
flag msg tools
badge
DOES NOT COMPUTE ||| EXTERMINATE ||| EXTERMINAAAAAATE
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Figaro123 wrote:
Thanks for the recommendations so far.

I would probably class it as military if the victory condition could theoretically be obtained peacefully but where conquest is the best or at least a strong way to achieve it. e.g. if you win by controlling X areas, and conquest lets you take areas from your opponents, then that's military, even if you could also colonise empty areas in theory. Similarly if "population" is an objective, and you can increase your population by conquering your opponents' areas, then that's probably not much of a non-military victory.

As an aside, I actually played a game of GoT where the winner didn't fight a single battle. They simply walked to victory whilst everyone else fought amongst themselves, and nobody listened to me when I told them it would happen (I was on the other side of the board). Very unsatisfying.


I'm curious what other games people come up with, because I'm rather skeptical that such games exist where military conquest is possible, and yet is not (one of) a strong way to win. The closest I know of is Sid Meier's Civ (you don't need a single combat unit to win), but military victory is still I think the most common victory out of 4 possibilities. Expansions change it somewhat, but not enough for military to be a lesser path.

As far as GoT goes, I like the game, but I won't play it unless there's a full 6 people at the table. If there's less than 6, the scenario you describe is all too common. Disadvantages of a fixed map and starting positions...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy root
United States
Kingsley
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Don't know if this is exactly what you are looking for but War of the Ring (Second Edition)maybe? Controlling territories(military) is one way to win but each side also has another way to pull out the victory (corrupting Frodo or destroying the ring). 2 player mainly but there is a variant for 3 or 4 if I remember correctly.

Star Wars: Rebellion is supposed to be similar but I have never played that one.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Julien K
Japan
Kyoto
flag msg tools
Mare Nostrum: Empires has 3 non-military victory conditions out of 4. Though I guess that according to your idea of military, all these are easier do achieve if you expand at minima.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A P
Wales
Newport
Other
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Borghal wrote:

I'm curious what other games people come up with, because I'm rather skeptical that such games exist where military conquest is possible, and yet is not (one of) a strong way to win. The closest I know of is Sid Meier's Civ (you don't need a single combat unit to win), but military victory is still I think the most common victory out of 4 possibilities. Expansions change it somewhat, but not enough for military to be a lesser path.

As far as GoT goes, I like the game, but I won't play it unless there's a full 6 people at the table. If there's less than 6, the scenario you describe is all too common. Disadvantages of a fixed map and starting positions...


That's not quite what I meant - I'd absolutely expect and want military to be a decent strategy. What I meant was to clarify that I was talking about genuine non-military options - the equivalent of a cultural or space race victory in the Sid Meier's Civ. computer games - not simply "you can win by either defeating your opponents, controlling X territories, or having X population", as it seems to me that the main way to achieve all of those is conquest.

Re: GoT yes, I generally avoid it now with fewer than 6. Though there alternative 4-player setups to that in the rulebook (which is terrible) that look like they might be decent.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A P
Wales
Newport
Other
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jerkyroot wrote:
Don't know if this is exactly what you are looking for but War of the Ring (Second Edition)maybe? Controlling territories(military) is one way to win but each side also has another way to pull out the victory (corrupting Frodo or destroying the ring). 2 player mainly but there is a variant for 3 or 4 if I remember correctly.

Star Wars: Rebellion is supposed to be similar but I have never played that one.


Thanks - I have WotR, really looking forward to playing it, but no, it's not really what I was looking for in this thread (you're not really building anything by reaching Mordor with the ring).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dani Evans
United Kingdom
Telford
Shropshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Imperial (and Imperial 2030). On the surface it's a dudes on a map wargame, but you play as shady global backers behind each country rather than the countries themselves. Not only is it possible to win without ever going to war with a country, it's possible to win without even controlling a country and having no presence on the board whatsoever
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
'Bernard Wingrave'
United States
Wyoming
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Antike Duellum is a race to 9 victory points. There are a limited number of points available in each of 5 types: navies, technologies, expansion, temples, destruction of an opponent's temple. Expanding your area is possible without violence in the early game because the two players' initial positions are pretty far apart. Winning without destroying your opponent's temples is also possible in many cases.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Redford
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sid Meier's Civilization has four victory conditions: military, economic, cultural, and technological. But the focus is more on building up your cities and technologies and the dudes on a map part is not such a big part.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ezequiel Vieira
Brazil
flag msg tools
JadedGamer wrote:
Scythe is the obvious answer: End condition has to do with achievements, two of which involve combat victories, but victory is based on money, popularity, resources and area control.


+1 Scythe
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
This film's crap, let's slash the seats
United Kingdom
Huddersfield
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Borghal wrote:

I'm curious what other games people come up with, because I'm rather skeptical that such games exist where military conquest is possible, and yet is not (one of) a strong way to win.


Blood Royale would qualify. It's possible to win by military conquest, but trade is generally a lot more effective.

It doesn't fit the OP's othe qualifiers though- takes too long and needs at least four players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carthoris Pyramidos
United States
Centennial
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Antike Duellum is euro-styled rather than "dudes," but it has two maps, allows for both building and fighting with an array of different conditions for VP, and plays in about an hour, two players only.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Nolan
Ireland
Dublin
flag msg tools
mb
Eclipse seems to fill the requirements. Winning is based on VPs and there are points for controlling systems, having a lot of technology, having diplomatic relations with your neighbours, building certain structures and combat.

Controlling systems is a big source of points and it often involves combat. There is, of course, taking nice systems that your fellow players already have which will almost certainly involve a fight, but sometimes systems that you discover will have ancient aliens that you need to kill to take over. This is not true of all systems though, if you consider fighting non-player elements to be combat you can either rely on discovering enough systems that are not already inhabited or take the race that peacefully coexists with the ancient aliens.

Some races are particularly good at exploring or technology so they are likely to get a lot more VPs from those activities rather than fighting.

Chances of you having a game where you never fight another player is pretty high if you choose to be passive and/or try to limit the points where they can access your space. Of course if you are clearly winning your opponents are likely to attack you and if you don't have any combat forces you will lose planets rapidly.

Chances of you being able to play/win without ever fighting an ancient alien is a lot less and unless you are the one race that coexists with them it would be a very sub-optimal way to play.

Military conquest is absolutely a valid tactic too of course. You get VPs directly for engaging in battles (although there is a kind of soft cap on how much you can get from that) and taking good planets from other people can be easier than exploring for them yourself. Some races have combat advantages and will usually have a more combat centric strategy.

Mostly players seem to adopt a middle road strategy. They develop their own space and a military capability. If they have to defend themselves they will do so, possibly pre-emptively, and if they see a big advantage in attacking someone that has left themselves exposed they will go for it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Easy Alias
United States
falls church
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Borghal wrote:
I'm rather skeptical that such games exist where military conquest is possible, and yet is not (one of) a strong way to win.


I'd offer Conquest of Paradise

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Willett
United States
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
JadedGamer wrote:
Scythe is the obvious answer: End condition has to do with achievements, two of which involve combat victories, but victory is based on money, popularity, resources and area control.


This was my thought as well. Combat can be part of the game, but most of my 4-5 player games end with only 2-3 fights.

Eclipse toes an interesting line here that I wanted to point out. Eclipse features fighting somewhat significantly, but if you play with 2-3 players there is less fighting between players. However, there are rogue aliens you will find and have to fight during the game. Military is rewarded in Eclipse, but you win via victory points, which you can gain a variety of ways. I've won a 5 player game by just trying to cut out my little corner of the galaxy and just scaring opponents off.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Hungerford
West Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scythe is definitely the best answer, but it will cost you more than Twilight Imperium.

Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization would be a good choice.

Eclipse doesn't force you to attack other players necessarily, but it is all about building ship designs for combat.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.