Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Twilight Imperium: Fourth Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: 58.5 bullet 2 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Paul Brown
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In regards to rule 58.5, bullet 2:

I believe the word "can" makes this optional right? I wonder if I can produce a 13th infantry to remove one from the board somewhere clearing out a planet.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Tucker
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
If you make more than 12 infantry, you'll use infantry tokens. As far as I know, there's no way to remotely destroy your own infantry, because they aren't component limited like the other plastic (excluding fighters, which also have tokens, of course).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Brown
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
unethrope wrote:
If you make more than 12 infantry, you'll use infantry tokens. As far as I know, there's no way to remotely destroy your own infantry, because they aren't component limited like the other plastic (excluding fighters, which also have tokens, of course).


The rules specifically state that your infantry must be accompanied by a plastic piece, so you ARE limited to 12 stacks. We are wondering if we can forgo the use of tokens based on the wording. Typically the word may is used.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Petersen
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
So if I understand the strategy here, you want to build a giant stack of non-token infantry so that you can remotely remove infantry so it can't be used to score an objective or as part of an agreement to get out of someone's way.

If the system contains an activation token, you can't scuttle them via Production at all.

In regards to the rules itself, that is very munchkiny. You can remotely change the plastic piece to a token. The token is not accompanied by a plastic piece. The token is destroyed. You should not be able to do that. You should have to use Transit Diodes to teleport your infantry away.

EDIT: 41.2 says "at any time" so if it was legal for you to do that last paragraph after Space Battle, all objectives that require Invasion Combat or Bombardment to happen are impossible.

In TI3 when rules lawyers found that blockading space docks was impossible because the units could be scuttled in status phase before the objective was scored, they ruled that you can't do that. I'm sure TI4 will rule the same way.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alwin Derijck
Netherlands
Utrecht
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you want to be able clean out planets, get the transit diodes technology.

No offence, but. ...
I never liked the scuttle rules of TI3 and this kind of munchkin type of TI4 rules lawyering would not be welcome in my group.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Brown
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alwin wrote:
If you want to be able clean out planets, get the transit diodes technology.

No offence, but. ...
I never liked the scuttle rules of TI3 and this kind of munchkin type of TI4 rules lawyering would not be welcome in my group.


Sounds like I wouldn't want to play with your group then. I like to play the game as intended, and if this is a legal option then it is one I would take to my advantage. TI4 is so great because the game is designed around complex rule interactions.

Scuttling of ships IS in TI4. You house rule out scuttling in TI4?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
UnalignedMagi wrote:
Alwin wrote:
If you want to be able clean out planets, get the transit diodes technology.

No offence, but. ...
I never liked the scuttle rules of TI3 and this kind of munchkin type of TI4 rules lawyering would not be welcome in my group.


Sounds like I wouldn't want to play with your group then. I like to play the game as intended, and if this is a legal option then it is one I would take to my advantage. TI4 is so great because the game is designed around complex rule interactions.

Scuttling of ships IS in TI4. You house rule out scuttling in TI4?

The scuttle rules of TI3 were different than in TI4.

As for intent, the only way to find out for sure is to ask Dane, but I'm pretty sure that it was NOT intended to allow you to scuttle Fighters/GFs in this manner.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Brown
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TomBoombs wrote:
So if I understand the strategy here, you want to build a giant stack of non-token infantry so that you can remotely remove infantry so it can't be used to score an objective or as part of an agreement to get out of someone's way.

If the system contains an activation token, you can't scuttle them via Production at all.

In regards to the rules itself, that is very munchkiny. You can remotely change the plastic piece to a token. The token is not accompanied by a plastic piece. The token is destroyed. You should not be able to do that. You should have to use Transit Diodes to teleport your infantry away.

EDIT: 41.2 says "at any time" so if it was legal for you to do that last paragraph after Space Battle, all objectives that require Invasion Combat or Bombardment to happen are impossible.

In TI3 when rules lawyers found that blockading space docks was impossible because the units could be scuttled in status phase before the objective was scored, they ruled that you can't do that. I'm sure TI4 will rule the same way.


Um... you can't just skip the VERY next rule, 41.3, which states you MUST replace a token with plastic if you can. Come on now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Brown
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigmazero13 wrote:
UnalignedMagi wrote:
Alwin wrote:
If you want to be able clean out planets, get the transit diodes technology.

No offence, but. ...
I never liked the scuttle rules of TI3 and this kind of munchkin type of TI4 rules lawyering would not be welcome in my group.


Sounds like I wouldn't want to play with your group then. I like to play the game as intended, and if this is a legal option then it is one I would take to my advantage. TI4 is so great because the game is designed around complex rule interactions.

Scuttling of ships IS in TI4. You house rule out scuttling in TI4?

The scuttle rules of TI3 were different than in TI4.

As for intent, the only way to find out for sure is to ask Dane, but I'm pretty sure that it was NOT intended to allow you to scuttle Fighters/GFs in this manner.


How does one ask Dane?

There is no debate that if you have 12 stacks of infantry that you can't get a 13th though, so this at least partly applies. Im fine with whatever ruling is made, I just want to know for sure.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You'd submit the question through FFG's rules question page if you want an official answer.

But I wouldn't bother here. The answer is clear that you can't intentionally do this. I mean, just consider that you can trade out plastic for cardboard whenever you want. This would allow a lot of scuttling all over the place, which would be utterly silly.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alwin Derijck
Netherlands
Utrecht
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Clipper wrote:

But I wouldn't bother here. The answer is clear that you can't intentionally do this. I mean, just consider that you can trade out plastic for cardboard whenever you want. This would allow a lot of scuttling all over the place, which would be utterly silly.


Exactly

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alwin Derijck
Netherlands
Utrecht
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
UnalignedMagi wrote:
You house rule out scuttling in TI4?


Nope

I want to play the game as intended.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Petersen
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
D'oh! I would still apply the inverse of that rule too. If changing plastic to cardboard would cause you to scuttle, you keep it plastic. If you can avoid scuttling by changing plastic to cardboard, you must.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benoit Girard
Canada
Quebec City
Quebec
flag msg tools
That would be unethical! No man left behind, and all that... :-)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Nix
msg tools
mb
Houseplants are not Men. Nor are cats, turtles, lava golems, techno-fish, and so on and so on down the ever more disgusting list of alien filth! Leave them behind as kindling for the cleansing fire of the Emperor's Chosen.

Sorry...bit of a Forbidden Stars Refugee here.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.