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Subject: First Playthrough - Are some season combos too powerful? rss

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Kevin Powell
United States
Florida
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During our first game, one of our players (Lotus) decided to focus on getting Season cards. The Kami Tsukuyomi was out. So during the first season they cleaned up on virtue cards. The rest of us had saved our money for battling.

The second season a season card that gave VP for every virtue card came out. We realized what a good combo this was, but figured the fact that the rest of us had way more provinces would balance out.

By winter, more Season cards came out that stacked even more with this person's huge pile of cards. In the end this player had over 90 points.

I don't have any issue with this as a mechanic. It just seems that Season cards can be overly useful. In this case, the vast majority of that player's overwhelming points had very little to do with all of the rest of the board. And that mostly just seems odd. The ability to focus on one mechanic and get all the resources you need and win by a fairly huge margin seems odd.

Now, I know that a big part of this was because of a specific Kami. And I now know of several ways that we could have slowed that roll. And now that we know about some of the cards we will pay more attention. But even then, in my head, it would have felt like a game of everyone focusing on one mechanic.

The only other mechanic that would have come close to that many points would have been taking all of the provinces that you could that mattered. Which requires so much more effort and maneuvering. Which frankly was what I was expecting the game to be like.

Is it possible we were doing something wrong, rules-wise? Do season cards not stack? Or is it really just a case of first game mistakes by those of us that didn't stop it from happening?
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Caulet jocelyn
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Maybe you should have buy some of the season card to block his combo during the train pahse since everyone can buy a card during this mandate.

Like many game they are some powerfull strategy ( for exemple science in 7wonders) but they can be countered quite easily, if no one coutered it then it's normal that he score so many points.
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Conan Meriadoc
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For the specific example of virtue cards, did you take into account only differently named virtue cards when counting ? The card says "different Virtues". The distinction can be important, as there are only so many different virtues, and going for different ones each time means they don't synergize as well.

If you counted multiple copies of a single virtue twice for the bonus, that could explain the perceived strength of the combos.
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Martin Wheeler
United Kingdom
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I think in this game it’s more to do with the fact that one player was made use of the available Season Cards whilst everyone else saved thEir money for something else. There are several ways to gain advantages using the cards and everyone should make use of this.

Generally as with Blood Rage there are several powerful card/power combinations. If everyone has one then it’s not such an issue, when everybody is super no one is, but if only one player gets a super combo then this can be an issue.
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Renaud Verlaque
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Shelter Island Heights
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Quote:
If you counted multiple copies of a single virtue twice for the bonus, that could explain the perceived strength of the combos.

IMPORTANT: A player may acquire more than 1 copy of the same Season card over subsequent Trainings. In these cases, their abilities stack together.

p16
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Cyan Shad
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He’s talking about the season card that gives you a point for every (different) virtue. The virtues themselves do stack. Also if they were using the Kami that lets you buy a season card no one else can buy them. Think blocking him to slow it down is the best counter.
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The Shader
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Renaud Verlaque wrote:
Quote:
If you counted multiple copies of a single virtue twice for the bonus, that could explain the perceived strength of the combos.

IMPORTANT: A player may acquire more than 1 copy of the same Season card over subsequent Trainings. In these cases, their abilities stack together.

p16


we know. Most of the cards that synergize with the virtues count how many DIFFERENT virtues you have, not how many.

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Phil Schmidt
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Woodbridge
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So you mention that the Kami enabled the card combo. This is not the only case where a Kami greatly inflates the power of certain season cards. It's important to understand these, to the point where when I'm playing with new players I specifically call out the interactions. Fortunately, the combo parts are individually useful, so often it's not too detrimental to steal the kami back.

Gain an upgrade card: As you noticed, this works super well with Virtue collection. Also you should look to see how many 0-1 cost cards are available, because free cards are totally worth placing some shinto.

Summon a Bushi: There are a few season cards that trigger on summon, like ninjitsu. This kami does create 3 potential extra triggers each season.

Move one figure twice or two figures once: this greatly inflates the autumn season oni that trigger on entry of a zone, because they go from moving potentially twice to moving about A LOT. I've had an opponent steal something around 24 points from opponents because of this.

 
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Chip Crawford
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Aubrey
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Our first game of Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization a player bought Michelangelo and the Sistine Chapel.

She ran the tables on us.

It was the last time we allowed that combo to be acquired by a player.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but a lot of these "In our first game..." post claiming the game is broken or unbalanced are somewhat silly in my opinion.

You're not going to know everything about the way the game plays in your first game. Isn't that part of the fun; to discover these cool and powerful combos?



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Randy4Games
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Yeah, in our first game we fell prey to the turtle clan using the Oni of Spite and the Fujin kami. Can you say Victory Point Vacuum? We could practically hear the sucking sound as it moved across multiple provinces . And due to poor planning on our part, he was able to do it twice. At least one person was back to 0 by the time that fiasco was over. We will NOT let that happen again. Live and learn!
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Bobby Sanmiguel
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LAWRENCEVILLE
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ravenmir wrote:
Yeah, in our first game we fell prey to the turtle clan using the Oni of Spite and the Fujin kami. Can you say Victory Point Vacuum? We could practically hear the sucking sound as it moved across multiple provinces . And due to poor planning on our part, he was able to do it twice. At least one person was back to 0 by the time that fiasco was over. We will NOT let that happen again. Live and learn!


That's how I won my 1st game! I think we had 2 players at 0 points at the start of the battle phase. I ended up winning the game by about 6 points.
 
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Stanley Laurel
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One of the amazing things about Rising Sun, like Blood Rage, is there are combo's and strategies that allow players to run away with games if they see them and other players don't counter. Part of the joy of Blood Rage (and now Rising Sun) is watching in awe as some player crushes you with a strategy you hadn't thought of, and then finding a way next game to stop it or find your own strategy.

I think a lot of modern board games with their catch up mechanics have spoiled players to think that if scores are not super close at the end of a game their must be an imbalance.
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