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Eldritch Horror: Under the Pyramids» Forums » Rules

Subject: Quachil Uttaus rss

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Frank Otte
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Quachil Uttaus: If you lose Health from the Strength test, roll 1 die. On a 1 or 2, you are Devoured.

I assume, the investigator is devoured, even if he has defeated Quachil Uttaus?
 
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Xelto G
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Yes.
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Frank Otte
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And I also assume, that an investigator, who is defeated by Quachil Uttaus, still rolls, if he is devoured instead of only being defeated?
 
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Mark Bauer
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no. AFAIK, as soon as there is lethal damage, the investigator is defeated immediately and there is no one who could roll the die.
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Frank Otte
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Anduin wrote:
no. AFAIK, as soon as there is lethal damage, the investigator is defeated immediately and there is no one who could roll the die.


I think, this is inconsistent: If the monster is defeated, the encounter should "continue" with the devoured-roll. But if the investigator is defeated, the encounter instantly ends, preventing the devoured-roll?

Note, that Nikki Valens stated the following: When a Monster is defeated, the Combat Encounter immediately ends. (see for example here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/21464218#21464218).

So if you are right, that the combat encounter ends with the defeat of the investigator, and that there is no more "time" to roll for being devoured, the same should be valid in case of the defeat of the monster, shouldn't it?
 
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Mark Bauer
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I can't comment on Xeltos statement, but I'm pretty sure, mine is correct.
The RR states that "When an investigator has lost all Health or Sanity, he is immediately defeated [...]"
and also
"If an investigator is defeated during an encounter or action, he
immediately stops resolving that encounter or action."

Note that the same statement is not present for monsters! Though, the clarification from Nikki raises the question if the combat encounter shouldn't adhere to the same rule. hmm...
I can only argue that the "trigger" already happened before the monster was defeated (or rather at the same time), while in the example of Hank, it talks about whether you "continue" a combat encounter even though there is no more monster.
Not sure though.
 
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Xelto G
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Hermjard wrote:
Anduin wrote:
no. AFAIK, as soon as there is lethal damage, the investigator is defeated immediately and there is no one who could roll the die.


I think, this is inconsistent: If the monster is defeated, the encounter should "continue" with the devoured-roll. But if the investigator is defeated, the encounter instantly ends, preventing the devoured-roll?

Yeah. This is like when you do reckoning effects. You do your first effect. If this causes you to lose one of the triggers for a future effect (for example, your first reckoning effect lets you discard a bane, so you discard a dark pact), then you don't do the reckoning effect of whatever you just lost.

In this case, if an investigator goes down due to combat damage, there's no investigator left to be devoured (just a defeated investigator, located on the same space).

If you still think otherwise, I suggest contacting FFG for an official answer.
 
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Frank Otte
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I think, you just contradicted yourself. I don't think otherwise, as you said in your last post. But because of that, I think, that your answer to my original question is wrong.

A Combat Encounter immediately ends, if one of the opponents is defeated (or both). For the investigators, the rules say this. For the monsters, Nikki Valens says this.

If the Combat Encounter has ended, there is no opportunity anymore, to follow the text on the monster token.

In case of a defeated investigator, there is no investigator left to be devoured, in case of a defeated monster, there is no monster token left in play anymore, to read text from.

So, an investigator isn't devoured by Quachil Uttaus if
- he must roll, but rolls a 3+,
- he is defeated by Quachil Uttaus (no roll),
- he has defeated Quachil Uttaus (no roll).

 
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Xelto G
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Hermjard wrote:
I think, you just contradicted yourself. I don't think otherwise, as you said in your last post. But because of that, I think, that your answer to my original question is wrong.

Not precisely. But before I get into fancy details, I'm going to go back to something I said earlier: you probably want to contact FFG support with this question. I don't think I'm wrong, but on the other hand, it is possible, and if you don't trust my answer, then you ought to ask someone who's got the definitive word on the subject.


And here's my fancy answer:

An investigator in combat with Quachil Uttaus, who deals enough damage to destroy the monster, but in turn also takes enough damage to lose all his health, triggers three effects. All three effects will happen, but as they were triggered simultaneously, the active investigator chooses the order they happen in. The effects are:

1) Quachil Uttaus is defeated
2) The investigator is defeated
3) The investigator has to test to see if he's devoured

No matter which of these happens first, the other two effects will happen, so removing Quachil Uttaus from the board doesn't stop the investigator from being defeated or checking to see if he's devoured.

Having the investigator be defeated before the test to see if he's devoured won't technically stop the test for devouring. But in this case, because the investigator has been defeated, it's no longer an investigator. Then when you make the roll for being devoured, if you get a 1 or 2, nothing happens, because the target of the effect is no longer in play.

For all practical purposes, you might as well skip the roll, because it's pointless. Now, you could, of course, choose to trigger the test for being devoured before the investigator is defeated, if you wanted to do it that way. But I can't see any strategic reason to do so.


At least, that's the way I see it. Send off the question to FFG, and let me know if I was right.
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Frank Otte
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One time you say, that effects are avoided in the moment, the trigger or the target of an effect ceases to exist in play. The other time you say, that effects outlast their trigger, even when the triggered effect did not start yet. All these with indeed fancy reasons.

Sorry, but I regard your distinction as completely artificial to fit your inconsistent position, thereby ignoring or at least warping the meaning of clear statements of the rules or the author:

- That a combat encounter immediately ends if the involved investigator ist defeated.
- That a combat encounter immediately ends if the involved monster is defeated.
- That a defeated investigator immediately stops resolving that encounter or action.

I wonder, how someone can change the meaning of really definitive words like "immediately", "end" and "stop" to result in a rule interpretation, which is exactly the opposite of the wording.

All that proposing a completely proprietary concept, like introducing some fancy "effect stack", which this game simply does not know, thereby not quoting a single rule or authors statement by yourself.

I know, you will once again ask me, to consult FFG if I am not satisfied with your answer.

I won't do this. Instead I will just wait for someone here in the thread who is able to reason his oppinion a little bit better and more sticking to the rules, no matter, what his oppinion might be.

In lack of such a person, I will continue playing the way, the rules dictate, to the best of my knowledge.
 
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Nelvin C.
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I believe that when you do not trust the response of a fellow forum mate, there is really nothing stopping you from sending FFG a rule question - they are, after all, the publishing company/designer.

Hermjard wrote:
I know, you will once again ask me, to consult FFG if I am not satisfied with your answer.

I won't do this. Instead I will just wait for someone here in the thread who is able to reason his oppinion a little bit better and more sticking to the rules, no matter, what his oppinion might be.


Saying this just makes you sound like you're being deliberately negative - or just to spite Xelto. Really puts you in a bad light.

It could just be the way you've phrased your sentences, but this is the second post where I find your responses to be kind of rude. If I have perceived this wrongly, I apologize.

-----

Anyway, I wanted to know the answer myself, so I sent in a query.

Official Answer:

Q: Regarding the Epic Monster Quachil Uttaus: "If you lose Health from the Strength test, roll 1 die. On a 1 or 2, you are Devoured."
(a) If an investigator is defeated from a health loss in a fight against Quachil, does s/he have to roll for devour?
(b) If Quachil is defeated in a fight against an investigator, who also lost health against it, does the investigator have to roll for devou
r?

Nikki Valens wrote:
A:If the investigator or epic monster are defeated by the strength test, the monster's ability won't resolve.
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Mark Bauer
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Thank you for your effort to get the official answer.

I think an apology from both sides would be adequate...

But who am I to claim this whistle
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