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Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Combat, subjugated system, capturing leader rss

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Balint Takacs
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Dear fellow boardgamers,

We had an epic game with my friend and a couple of questions arose.

1. If someone attcks the other and the defender places a leader in the system, can the defender call in unitnfrom the adjacent systems?

2. I was with the rebels and i had an objective card "Regional support", i had loyalty on all of the systems but imperials had subjugated token on one of them aaaaaand in the meantime another system was blown up by the Death Star. Is the card still counts as complete?

3. The imperials tried to capture one of my leaders, can that leader try to defend themselve and roll the dice, what happens if it does not have a spec ops capability, can i call in a leader to be on his help? Or if that leader that might soon be captures lets say has only 1 spec ops, can imcall in a leader with higher values?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Takkos
 
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Scott Lewis
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takkos wrote:
1. If someone attcks the other and the defender places a leader in the system, can the defender call in unitnfrom the adjacent systems?

No. They can only use the units that were there. You can only move units in if the leader i placed as part of "activating a system" when it's your turn, not if it was placed there at the start of combat.

Quote:
2. I was with the rebels and i had an objective card "Regional support", i had loyalty on all of the systems but imperials had subjugated token on one of them aaaaaand in the meantime another system was blown up by the Death Star. Is the card still counts as complete?

Yes. Subjugation doesn't count as (or affect) loyalty, and the destroyed system is no longer a populous system, so you still have loyalty in all the populous systems in the region.

Quote:
3. The imperials tried to capture one of my leaders, can that leader try to defend themselve and roll the dice, what happens if it does not have a spec ops capability, can i call in a leader to be on his help? Or if that leader that might soon be captures lets say has only 1 spec ops, can imcall in a leader with higher values?

When you oppose a mission (which is what happens when you are being captured), you may ALWAYS bring in a leader from your leader pool, regardless of what you have in the system already. Whether you do or not, if you have no Spec Ops icons (in this case), you don't roll any dice, but the opponent has to "beat" your roll (of 0), so they would have to get at least 1 success to capture you.
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Balint Takacs
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Thanks Scott for the fast reply

Quote:
When you oppose a mission (which is what happens when you are being captured), you may ALWAYS bring in a leader from your leader pool, regardless of what you have in the system already. Whether you do or not, if you have no Spec Ops icons (in this case), you don't roll any dice, but the opponent has to "beat" your roll (of 0), so they would have to get at least 1 success to capture you.


So the leader that is being captured cannot oppose the mission? Let's say the imperials are trying to capture Han Solo who has 2 Spec Ops icons. Then let's say i call in Lando Calrissian with 1 Spec Ops logo. With how many dice can i roll?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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takkos wrote:
So the leader that is being captured cannot oppose the mission? Let's say the imperials are trying to capture Han Solo who has 2 Spec Ops icons. Then let's say i call in Lando Calrissian with 1 Spec Ops logo. With how many dice can i roll?


All uncaptured leaders in the system always oppose. You can always send another leader to also oppose.

In your example, you would roll 3 dice in opposition.
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Mark Hengst II
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I thought that when you send in a leader to oppose, you only get the opposition value of the highest leader, so in your scenario, wouldn't you still only get the one value? I need to re-read I thought the opposing person, sans any cards or effects, could only provide one leader to oppose the other player's mission.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Hengst2404 wrote:
I thought that when you send in a leader to oppose, you only get the opposition value of the highest leader, so in your scenario, wouldn't you still only get the one value? I need to re-read I thought the opposing person, sans any cards or effects, could only provide one leader to oppose the other player's mission.

I think a reread would help. I suspect you are mixing up the rules for combat (where only the highest tactics value is used for each theater) with missions/opposing (where you use the relevant icons for ALL leaders in the system).

You can only (optionally) add one leader from the leader pool to oppose, but all leaders there already still help oppose.
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Mark Hengst II
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Ahh see that was the rub. I was overlooking leaders already there and focusing on the adding a leader to oppose. That was an important nuance that I missed. I am not sure if that would have changed what I did this past Saturday or not, but I am guessing my rebel opponent might have applied different tactics had we realized.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Hengst2404 wrote:
Ahh see that was the rub. I was overlooking leaders already there and focusing on the adding a leader to oppose. That was an important nuance that I missed. I am not sure if that would have changed what I did this past Saturday or not, but I am guessing my rebel opponent might have applied different tactics had we realized.

Having the leaders stack like this can often time have HUGE impacts on the game (particularly when it comes to capturing and the missions that can affect capturing leaders).
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Mark Hengst II
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Hengst2404 wrote:
Ahh see that was the rub. I was overlooking leaders already there and focusing on the adding a leader to oppose. That was an important nuance that I missed. I am not sure if that would have changed what I did this past Saturday or not, but I am guessing my rebel opponent might have applied different tactics had we realized.

Having the leaders stack like this can often time have HUGE impacts on the game (particularly when it comes to capturing and the missions that can affect capturing leaders).


I can totally see this. Things like this, which can be missed, often makes me wonder why better explanations aren't given for games like this. Like being able to oppose when you don't have the symbols to force your opponent to make a roll to succeed. I am not sure how many games I would have missed out on strategies, if not for BGG.
 
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Craig S.
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Hengst2404 wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Hengst2404 wrote:
Ahh see that was the rub. I was overlooking leaders already there and focusing on the adding a leader to oppose. That was an important nuance that I missed. I am not sure if that would have changed what I did this past Saturday or not, but I am guessing my rebel opponent might have applied different tactics had we realized.

Having the leaders stack like this can often time have HUGE impacts on the game (particularly when it comes to capturing and the missions that can affect capturing leaders).


I can totally see this. Things like this, which can be missed, often makes me wonder why better explanations aren't given for games like this. Like being able to oppose when you don't have the symbols to force your opponent to make a roll to succeed. I am not sure how many games I would have missed out on strategies, if not for BGG.


To be fair, all this stuff is in the rules.
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Mark Hengst II
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To be fair if the rules had been written better, this forum wouldn't be littered with folks asking questions, or at least not nearly as many.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Hengst2404 wrote:
To be fair if the rules had been written better, this forum wouldn't be littered with folks asking questions, or at least not nearly as many.

There are many people who ask questions because they either didn't read the rules through first, or that misunderstood things.

I think trying to make a set of rules that never generates any rules question is an impossible task for pretty much any game with any sort of complexity.

While rules can always be made better, sometimes the fault is with the "user" not the "manual"
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Jorgen Peddersen
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And it has to be factored in that the rules questions for this game and others using RRGs are answered much faster and much more concisely than most other games.

With other rulebooks you'll find multiple people giving out completely incorrect answers or arguing with each other over how certain mechanics interact, but you get FAR less of that here. We are able to easily reason out an answer quite quickly and easily, which is amazing for a game with rules as complex as this.

The RRG format is not that great for learning a game, but it is a godsend for answering rules questions of players, even when those players don't consider looking up the relevant sections themselves.
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Craig S.
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Hengst2404 wrote:
To be fair if the rules had been written better, this forum wouldn't be littered with folks asking questions, or at least not nearly as many.

There are many people who ask questions because they either didn't read the rules through first, or that misunderstood things.

I think trying to make a set of rules that never generates any rules question is an impossible task for pretty much any game with any sort of complexity.

While rules can always be made better, sometimes the fault is with the "user" not the "manual"


This. In almost all cases (we're talking, like, 99%), questions posted on any rules forum can be answered with a direct quote from the manual. It is human nature to misunderstand, gloss over, or insert our own preconceptions into what is actually written.

This is why it is generally considered bad form to respond to rules questions here with some version of "RTFM". People come here with questions after reading the FM because we are humans that make mistakes and miss things. That doesn't mean the thing we missed wasn't actually clearly explained in the manual.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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csouth154 wrote:
This is why it is generally considered bad form to respond to rules questions here with some version of "RTFM". People come here with questions after reading the FM because we are humans that make mistakes and miss things. That doesn't mean the thing we missed wasn't actually clearly explained in the manual.


But you'll also find many of us responding to rules questions with quotations of the relevant rules and which section to look at for more information.

As with the adage, "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime," we often find that showing people where to look often means they don't come back asking other questions, instead figuring things out for themselves in the future!

Which is probably why we also jump on comments about the 'rulebook is terrible just because', as our experiences actually answering people don't play out that way.
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Mark Hengst II
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Hengst2404 wrote:
To be fair if the rules had been written better, this forum wouldn't be littered with folks asking questions, or at least not nearly as many.

There are many people who ask questions because they either didn't read the rules through first, or that misunderstood things.

I think trying to make a set of rules that never generates any rules question is an impossible task for pretty much any game with any sort of complexity.

While rules can always be made better, sometimes the fault is with the "user" not the "manual"


I hear what you are saying. Look I am far from perfect and am not always happy ending up being the "learn the rules guy". Especially after a ridiculously long game into the wee hours of the morning. I am happy that it wasn't that we did anything wrong, just didn't take advantage of some rules that likely would have helped with our moves. Particularly for my friend who played the Rebels.

Sometimes you read something and it isn't clear and so you re-read it and just kind of go with what you think is right. I do love that here I can ask for clarification, or more importanly, if I am walk around with the wrong idea of how the mechanics actually work, I want to know. I didn't mean to get defensive. I do appreciate all the help folks here provide.
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