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Subject: Strat for LVL 3 phoenix help? rss

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clarence
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Anyone can share their tips for LVL 3 phoenix.

I at year 27.
Manage to bring it down to like 5-6 ai card.
 
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J J
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Don’t have this happen to you.

They did have a good idea though. Took a Founding Stone and used it to

Spoiler (click to reveal)
critically wound a location that gave the Phoenix two -2 accuracy tokens.
 
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Chinh Tran
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I'm surprised this thread hasn't garnered many replies. I suppose the Phoenix is the alpha predator of the core box, so many people haven't figured it out?

I've only killed one Lvl 3 Phoenix, and am currently losing to another one (I'm also at LY 27), so I am by no means an expert, but here are some observations:

1. While the Lion has a lot of Failure reactions, and the Antelope has a lot of Reflex reactions, the Phoenix has a lot of Wound reactions. These reactions tend to be defensive, reducing the opportunity to wound on all hits, unless you can ignore reactions or manipulate the HL cards (e.g., Katar, Sword or Dagger Specialization). Unfortunately, Katars and Daggers are probably going to need a Red Charm to Wound a Lvl 3 Phoenix, and the 1.5 version of the Lvl 3 Phoenix has +2 Luck, making it extremely difficult to crit.

2. The Phoenix has some pretty nasty attacks, including one that cannot be blocked (which always hits the head, at Speed 4 and deals 13 Damage at Lvl 3), one that Dooms the target (Speed 3 & Damage 7 at Lvl 3), and three attacks that reduce the target's armor to 0 before applying damage! Couple this with the threat of Spiral Age, and the pressure of Bleed Tokens from Razor Wind (or depletion of Survival to avoid it), I'm not so sure that the "Slow and Steady" meta is the way to go with this beast. (The Trap is still scary but so are a lot of its AI cards!) I've been able to take down Lvl 2 Phoenixes in 2-3 Rounds by going all out (e.g., dual Beast Knuckles, Surging like mad). I followed the same strategy for the first Lvl 3 Phoenix I faced, and was only successful because I had 1) a Catgut Bow archer with a Death Mask, so I could still crit, 2) Grand Weapon specialist with a Perfect Slayer, and 3) a tank with Beacon Shield and high Evasion. Unfortunately, my second fight with a Lvl 3 Phoenix is not going so well because I had 1) no Death Mask (she died to the first Lvl 3 Phoenix), 2) no Perfect Slayer (the wielder is 1 Hunt XP from retirement and I'm saving him & the sword for the Gold Smoke Knight, and 3) no high evasion tank (he Retired after beating the first Lvl 3 Phoenix).
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Tranc wrote:
I'm surprised this thread hasn't garnered many replies. I suppose the Phoenix is the alpha predator of the core box, so many people haven't figured it out?


It's not a matter of figuring it out, it's that any L3 requires extra preparation, and we literally do not know anything about the setup of the OP, or what went wrong last hunt that he needs to correct.

I will keep expansion stuff out of this discussion (there is stuff that makes the L3 Phoenix definitely more manageable).

If you want generic tips which could or could not be applicable, here they are:

- Shields on everyone and a shield mastery that gives you the extra armor on everyone would be good-good. Shield spec on everyone also helps you with materialize collision.

- better hunters than me can probably stall the L3 indefinitely, but I personally want to make a L3 Phoenix hunt as short as possible, so Devastating is your friend here.

- be sure to have a strategy to deal with Age Tokens and as a rule of thumb, don't leave them accumulating for too much. As an added thought, you are probably best off by having high insanity at start (the hunt gets more dangerous), and the best course of action would be to be able to manipulate your insanity levels. Given the sheer number of age tokens a L3 phoenix usually deals out, though, core game only it would probably best to just depart with high insanity. Of course, SotF rerolls come handy if you get Feet or something during hunt, and 3+ courage or Song of the Brave or a Leader in your hunt party will help making Overwhelming Darkness a cakewalk.


- that +2 luck tokens is going to be nasty. Your default crit-hitter with just a Deadly 1 weapon and a Luck Charm will crit at 10, the others won't crit at all. There is no reliable way to remove monster tokens in core game, so you are aiming at bringing hitters with some +1 luck (difficult, but doable).

- for the above reason, Bow Mastery and Axe Mastery are extremely good (they are ALWAYS extremely good, but they obfuscate Grand weapons for this showdown). Your Axe master will do all of the critting. You want a Lantern Glaive on him and some decent strength buff.


- Katar Mastery is also great. L3 Phoenix sort of counteracts the +1 evasion here and there, but cancelling reactions on a hit location stays a great bonus. Grand Specialization would be invaluable, but it won't proc a lot because of that +2 luck (unless you have ways to counteract it), while Grand Mastery is always good. In this specific case, Katar mastery outshines Grand mastery in my opinion (you still lack the right katar to make it really shine without expansions).

- You have ONE job against any kind of Phoenix: you MUST SEARCH, FIND AND CRIT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE ITS GLORIOUS ARM PIT. In the simplest execution, you Cat's Eye Circlet it and then you throw a Founding Stone at it, but any way you can accomplish that brings the Phoenix to easy mode. That, along with critting various deathblow locations, is the correct use of a founding stone.

- even if Indomitable, you want it knocked down as much as you can. Especially during AI. Do whatever is in your power to do that reliably (too bad for grand weapons, but again, critting Glorious Arm Pit is critical).

- you don't traditionally tank a L3 Phoenix as long as you cannot control its movement, so be sure to scout AI in advance to limit damage next turn. Also, assuming you are working to keeping the showdown short instead of trying to farm it (!), if you work with some Devastating stuff (a Perfect Slayer would be great, but I think it is too much to ask ), always dash out of razor wind at end of turn, it wears you down extremely quickly.

- FFS, don't trigger the trap in an uncontrolled way! Always try to Blue Charm/Spear Spec-remove it, and be prepared for the consequences!

- Top of the Food Chain is nasty. If you have some empty gear grid space, bring one dried acanthus.

As a reward for a first time defeat, you get the Crest Crown which incidentally makes the showdown a lot easier (ah, the irony!).

But, as you can see, this analysis requires that you worked a few years in advance to set up for the L3 Phoenix. It is difficult to aim suggestions of this level if you don't know where the OP is failing

EDIT: as an alternative to a normal timeless eyed axe master w/ lantern glaive, you can have an axe user with high speed, -4 accuracy from bone witch (which, not being Blind SI, makes you still use Timeless Eye), Timeless Eye and a Counterweighted Axe. It is not your main hitter because it is somewhat a slow way of inflicting damage, but you might want it if you don't have anything better.

EDIT2: changed the nonsensical advice about Age Tokens and Courage with the correct one

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Chinh Tran
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t3clis wrote:

It's not a matter of figuring it out, it's that any L3 requires extra preparation, and we literally do not know anything about the setup of the OP, or what went wrong last hunt that he needs to correct.

I stand corrected, but am glad I provoked a response

t3clis wrote:

- you need to have maxed out or near-to-maxed-out courage on your party to manage tokens efficiently - be sure to have a strategy to deal with them and as a rule of thumb, don't leave them accumulating for too much.

What's the Courage for? (Dreaded Decade tokens get removed by rolling below your Insanity.)

 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Tranc wrote:

What's the Courage for? (Dreaded Decade tokens get removed by rolling below your Insanity.)


Sorry, that's one case of stuff mixing in my head. Yeah, the advice stands, but be sure to have high enough insanity to handle Age tokens, or better, to have a way to manipulate insanity levels (in core game it could not be worth the effort, given the number of age tokens you tend to accumulate with a L3 Phoenix).

For what it matters, I linked the Phoenix with DBK, since having high Courage pays off with the DBK (Swarm of Botflies mostly, but also in the Aftermath to get the Hidden Crimson Jewel), and a quick hunt/showdown with the Phoenix usually boosts your courage anywhere from moderate to high.

Yesterday it was a case of kids keeping me awake at night and pulling out some generic advice during a work commute - I will edit the original answer with something that makes sense.
 
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J J
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I just fought a level 3 and one thing that helped me significantly was a random terrain Toppled Pillar along with the Nightmare Tree. Many of the Phoenix AI cards are "last threat to wound in range", so if your damage dealers can hit and then dash behind an obstacle, the Phoenix will often wind up performing Instinct instead of attacking them.

Of course this assumes your survivors have enough insanity to not care about the brain damage and you can get rid of the age tokens or don't care about gaining hunt XP. It's definitely a way to avoid having the Phoenix focus on your (usually less well protected) offensive survivors. Then you just position your tank properly to defeat the Phoenix basic action and lure it back over to where the damage dealing survivors are hiding and repeat.

Also remember that equipment like the Lantern Helm can be used to deafen a survivor if they don't have enough insanity to take that kind of brain damage. If you have a Fist and Tooth master in the settlement you might not care as much about not being able to encourage.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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RepublicLifeHuman wrote:
I just fought a level 3 and one thing that helped me significantly was a random terrain Toppled Pillar along with the Nightmare Tree. Many of the Phoenix AI cards are "last threat to wound in range", so if your damage dealers can hit and then dash behind an obstacle, the Phoenix will often wind up performing Instinct instead of attacking them.


I hate having to break this to you, but... If you are behind an Obstacle but inside monster's movement range, you are still "in range". You are not "in line of sight", so it helps with that kind of AI.

With a "last threat to wound, in range", a Fecal Salve would help (because you are not a threat anymore), or making your tank wound last (unreliable), or dash away from range (unlikely, unless very good bows).

As a side note, if you don't want to rely on luck for Toppled Pillars, bring a Strategist along. I always find more useful Giant Stone Faces, though, although with quarries like the Gorm the Toppled Pillar and nobody insane is a surefire way to make them waste turns.
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J J
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t3clis wrote:


I hate having to break this to you, but... If you are behind an Obstacle but inside monster's movement range, you are still "in range". You are not "in line of sight", so it helps with that kind of AI.



You're right, I can't believe I forgot that it needs to be "in field of view" for obstacles to matter for targeting. I guess I'll just assume I TPKed and move on since I don't know how I would have beaten it otherwise. I agree, Fecal Salve is a pretty good option though it will really slow down how fast you can do damage to it.
 
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J J
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I decided to replay this even though I thought I would just get crushed but it forced me to develop a better strategy to beat the Phoenix. First, it helped that I had a survivor with 7 movement (activated Lantern Greaves) and the Double Dash fighting art as one of my main damage dealers so she could always wound the Phoenix last and then dash twice to get out of range after targeting if necessary. She could then manoeuvre the Phoenix so the tank was closest when it performed its basic action.

Another useful tactic was surging to attack after the Phoenix targeted to wound a location that would move the Phoenix away from the attacker or the attacker away from the Phoenix. Glorious Crest is the best for this because it will teleport the Phoenix to the far side of the board, putting it out of range and usually making it's subsequent basic action Instinct, but this trick should also work with any of the rewind hit locations (assuming the survivor has age tokens) or Eye of the Storm locations (while not in the Eye). Once the targeted survivor is further away from the Phoenix, they can be encouraged up (if necessary), then dash towards the tank who defeats the subsequent basic action. Obviously it doesn't work against Materialize AI cards, but there aren't many of these in the deck (only three that also have "last threat to wound" language) so usually you will be able to skip over them with Rawhide Headband. Other Materialize AI cards can be dealt with by clearing age tokens off your tank at key moments (targets least age tokens).

Other things that really helped (aside from the obvious Rawhide Headband and Cat Eye Circlet) were King's Step on one of my main damage dealers to clear Impervious or Super Dense locations and Horripilation to add an extra attacks to the Dragon Slayer (sped up the fight a bit).
 
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Jessie Christian
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So I hope this thread is still going on. We just finished a hunt against a level 3 Phoenix and I figured I would share the results. Here were my survivor builds.

Off Tank: Antelope Set, Dried Acanthus, Lantern Glaive, Round Leather Shield, and Monster Grease. With the Eternal Will SFA and Monster Grease, my Survivor was 5/10/8 (Accuracy/Strength/Evasion). She was also a Spear/Axe Master.

DPS: Rawhide Set, Riot Mace, Beacon Shield. This Survivor had Ageless Apprentice, but wound up not really needing it too much.

DPS/Utility: Leather Set, Dragon Slayer, Monster Grease, Necromancer's Eye

Utility: Wisdom Potion,Bandages, Beacon Shield, Fecal Salve, First Aid Kit


This wound up being a Solo Fight between my Axe/Spear Master as the other survivors wound up being Utility support for the most Part. Spear Mastery is very important in this fight, because you can gain the Priority Target Token. If you combine this with the Headliner FA (when you become doomed or gain priority target gain a survival) it becomes free so long as you hit. The Phoenix rarely ever hit her with 8 evasion, and we made sure to Rawhide Headband to keep the Monster only focused on her.

During our Turn, my Axe/Spear Master was doing most of the damage, and we were able to get all 5 Persistent Injuries thanks to Axe Mastery. Age Eater was a very important ability to have early in the Fight. HL control was key up until the very end of the fight. Our Survivor with the Dragon Slayer whittled him down to 2 wounds. We did have a scare when we needed to perform more wounds and the only card left was the trap. She was unable to defuse it, and wound up taking the Trap. Thankfully the Dried Acanthus saved her from a Severe Injury and the deck reset.

Death Blow was on top, and we managed to get it, so that was a plus!

To summarize, here are the key points towards winning this fight.

1. Control his Targeting. Make sure your tank is drawing his attention in whatever way possible. 8 evasion is optimal for this Fight, but Probably more than what is necessary if you can get a particular Persistent Injury in play.

2. Rawhide Headband, Cat-Eye Circle/Necromancer's Eye, Wisdom Potion are all essential for this Fight. If you control both of the HL and AI Deck, as well as his Targeting, the Phoenix loses a lot power.

3. I didn't mention above, but having high Insanity is helpful especially if your Age Tokens are accumulating. With Age Eater in play, I never went Past 3 on a single Survivor.

4. I won't say they are completely Necessary, but the Masteries of both Axe and Spear were beyond helpful in this fight. I think there are other ways of decimating the Phoenix and controlling his targeting, but this in my opinion was the most optimal path.

5. A little bit of luck, and some Prayer that he doesn't perform Deja Vu on the first turn, because all your Survivors could just get Erased on the Spot.
 
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