Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

San Juan» Forums » General

Subject: Is it just me? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Hamilton
United Kingdom
Stockport
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK, The game needs cards and 110 is a sensible number (2 standard packs of 55) but why does it need the pad and pencil?

10 more cards would mean that the role cards and trader strips could be done as cards rather than tokens and then perhaps the price of this game could be reduced.

I have just paid £14.50 ($26.00) for a deck of cards, this in not cheap for essentially a card game.

Perhaps it is just a price we have to pay for being in the UK. The game is cheaper in the US and much cheaper in Germany
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Uffe Lichtenberg
Denmark
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Re:Is it just me?
cnd_77 (#32299),

I've thought in the same lines. Initially I would rather have had a cards-only game. Especially since this would make it easier to travel with (I've been aching so much for a travelling Puerto Rico that I'm currently constructing a miniature magnetic version).

But for a non-traveller game I actually kind of like the components. And the box. And the scoring pad is very handy for keeping track of your successes (and your victims failures)

But necessary per se...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Kieninger
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Re:Is it just me?
Hammy (#32292),

We sat down and played once. Then all agreed that this would have been better as just a big deck of cards. Role and market die-cuts definetly could be done as cards. Can could easily cost $5+ less without the die-cuts, pecil, pad and oversized box.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ash Patil
United States
Manhattan Beach
California
flag msg tools
Re:Is it just me?
Frithuric (#32339),

I'm with you. I actually take most of these card games out of their fragile, oversized boxes and put them into sturdy plastic card boxes for transport.

Why can't game companies use more compact packaging? I mean why take up extra room on our shelves for no reason?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mb
Re:Is it just me?
sddude (#32356),

That extra shelf space is more chance for it to be noticed in a game store. Most of the users on BGG would go into a purchase situation already informed of options and knowing exactly what they are looking for, however a customer who has never heard of San Juan might be more inclined to at least investigate the game further if they notice it on the shelf in the first place.

-MMM
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevor Gunter
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
Re:Is it just me?
Of course, the reason why it's packaged the way it is is so it fits with the other Alea Small-Box games. Sure, it could have been put in a tuck-box, but then it would look out of place with the rest of your Alea games (they are being marketed as a series, after all).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Michael Hickey
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
I usullay transfer all my card games into plastic VHS boxes having got the idea from 'Ransom'. They are ideal for storage, transport and cheap too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will M. Baker
United States
Silverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
Re:Is it just me?
Don't those plastic VHS boxes have little knobs in them (to secure the VHS tape) that might warp the cards?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Patton
United States
Evanston
Illinois
flag msg tools
Re:Is it just me?
Frithuric (#32339),
Economics 101. Prices are not determined by cost of materials, but how much someone will pay. The die-cuts aren't there to increase the price, only to make you feel better about what you were willing to spend.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
jman wrote:
Frithuric (#32339),
Economics 101. Prices are not determined by cost of materials, but how much someone will pay. The die-cuts aren't there to increase the price, only to make you feel better about what you were willing to spend.


Yes.

The price is based on the fact that the game is using the popularity of Puerto Rico as a selling point, creating increased demand. Even though its an entirely different game. (Though similarly themed, and with a couple of the same mechanics)

I wish there wasnt the pad and pencil, and the price was lower, but whatever...I paid it, and so will you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Meitzler
United States
West Deptford
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
Hammy (#32292),well I am a little tired of people complaining about the cost of games, don't forget to factor in the cost of the design time, and paying the designer, just becasue the material of the game is worth 5 bucks, doesn't mean it sells for 5. Plus this is the cheapest hobby around, so much fun, for so many hours for so little money, GAMING IS AWSOME, AND STILL VERY CHEAP
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Larry Chong
United States
Kendall Park
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
cnd_77 (#32428),

You can get those VHS boxes from nationwide ($1 or .99 cents) Dollar Stores, found in many shopping malls and strip malls. Just a thought, but I think you could saw-off or cut-off those internal knob things as long as they don't scratch the cards/game.


I personally didn't like the pad either, but if asked whether I would've paid the SAME price had the game came without it, I'd have to admit I'd say "Yes". SJ' price is mainly riding on PR's reputation. I do think that SJ is a good game for casual gamers to play as a preliminary before PR. Thus, the pad may be useful except for us gamers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Hamilton
United Kingdom
Stockport
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
jmuscold (#32459),
>well I am a little tired of people complaining about the
>cost of games.

As a producer of games myself I am fully aware of all the costs involved. What I can't understand in this case is why some seemingly irrelevant components have been included. If you need to write down the score use a piece of paper and a pencil you already own!

When we make Warfrog games keeping the cost to gamers sensible is a major concern of ours. I will freely admit that for some of our games we have cut corners but only in a effort to keep our prices to gamers down.

Also WHY is it that games made in Germany are cheaper to buy in the US than the UK? Warfrog have tried to keep our prices in Germany, the UK and the US the same even if this means us taking a hit on what we get from our US sales.

So in this case I have two concerns:
Why have we been sold components we don't need?
Why does this game cost twice as much if I want English text

Yours

James 'Hammy' Hamilton
Frog Four
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will M. Baker
United States
Silverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
Re:Is it just me?
Having had a chance to play the game last night, I noticed that the pad of paper was specific to the game, meaning that it laid out a specific order for computing the score at the end of the game: first standard victory points, then bonuses, then bonuses for the bonuses, etc.

Such an ordering is probably laid out in the rules as well, but it is nice to have a pre-printed pad with the appropriate layout, rather than making players recreate the (albeit simple) chart each time they play.

As an aside, I like to save game scores as a sort of snapshot of the game played, for warm memories, so it is a nice bonus to have a standardized, preprinted scoresheet for a game, rather than some scrap of paper with my messily-drawn chart.

As far as cost goes, I certainly want to pay as little as possible, but I should also remind myself that I should be paying for expected enjoyment, rather than production cost. For instance, Diplomacy is high-production, and I got it for a price appropriate to that production quality, but I have yet to play it, and thus the money, thus far, has been wasted. Lost Cities, on the other hand, was, as some have noted, expensive for just a stack of cards and a superfluous board, but I have enjoyed it so much, I really should have been willing to pay more. So if a person is going to love San Juan and play it repeatedly, $20.00 seems like a bargain, regardless of the components. And if a person isn't going to enjoy it very much at all, and seldom pull it off the shelf, then $20.00 is a bit steep, regardless of the components.

I should note that if one is truly likely to play San Juan repetedly, then I can understand if they would prefer a higher-quality card for the price, as the cards are not as durable as they could be.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
- -
Canada
Dartmouth
Nova Scotia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
jmuscold wrote:
Hammy (#32292),well I am a little tired of people complaining about the cost of games, don't forget to factor in the cost of the design time, and paying the designer, just becasue the material of the game is worth 5 bucks, doesn't mean it sells for 5. Plus this is the cheapest hobby around, so much fun, for so many hours for so little money, GAMING IS AWSOME, AND STILL VERY CHEAP


Ditto.

Take the # of times played divided into the price of the game and you have what is hands down one of the cheapest liesure time investments you'll ever make.

As for the paper pad, I can guarantee you that--as someone whose done a stint selling games--most buyers want the complete experience including the equipment to keep score, whatever componentry that is. That pad is probably the least expensive thing about the product.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Michael Hickey
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
Come on Hammy,

£14.50 is not expensive for a game of this calibre, even if it has a useless pad and pencil. I just wish they would all spend more on making better quality platicised cards, so I didn't have to go laminating them all.

Regards to all at the Pot O' Beer club from Steve Hickey in Auckland.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luca Iennaco
Italy
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
Re:Is it just me?
jmuscold wrote:
... Plus this is the cheapest hobby around, so much fun, for so many hours for so little money, GAMING IS AWSOME, AND STILL VERY CHEAP


Cheaper than others doesn't mean cheap in absolute sense (but it's awesome, I agree laugh ).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Heinz Kiosk
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
James,

This could be wrong, but I have heard that the explanation for the high cost of some English Language games printed in Germany sold in the UK is that for some bizarre reason they often cross the Atlantic twice. The entire English print-run is shipped to the states, then shipped back to the UK distributors. Certainly I find myself buying an awful lot of German language games from Adam Spielt.

Tom
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Derscheid
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
sddude (#32356),

From talking with several indie game designers here in Texas, some retailers will simply refuse to stock your game if it is too small. The smaller the box, the easier the shoplifting.

Sure, they could put your game in a glass case or behind the counter, but that's already Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh territory, among other things.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jesse Mecoides
Australia
St Kilda
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re:Is it just me?
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I live in Australia, and I bought SJ over the counter for $50AU (approx. $35 US or 19 Pounds). I think it could be cheaper, but I don't think that removing the pad of paper and role cards would've reduced the cost of the game, just the value that people feel like they are getting when spending that much.

Also I think that its nice to have the pad so you can keep a record of your previous games handy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Cox
Australia
Petersham
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
i wouldn't complain - card games like san juan cost around AU$49 (US35) in shops here! if you're lucky you can get them for less online say around $35 plus postage...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Jones
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
I wonder how well those 10 extra cards would hold up getting so much use.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Heidenreich
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
MilwaukeeTEG
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Personally, I *like* having the pad of paper and pencil in the game. It makes it easier to score and you have it in the box. Also, the die cut tiles for the roles add so much more to the game. I don't really collect games to collect games, but I'm one who prefers keeping the game in the original box. I have Category 5 and keep it in a CCG box, and I hate it. My Colertto box is a tuck box and it sucks. It is out of place compared to the boxes for Mu, Money!, Bang! etc.

Even for my standard deck of cards, I have a nice leather card box that holds two decks and my poker chip racks hold cards (with nice pull sleeves) as well.

But then again, storage isn't as much of a problem for me. I know there are many who need to conserve space (I do as well, hence I trade more now).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grzegorz Kobiela
Germany
Hanover
Lower Saxony
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Editor at Lookout Games
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Until I read this thread I didn't even imagine there is something to complain on SJ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.