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Subject: Where's the Hype? rss

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Brant Benoit
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As the title states.
And where's the marketing?
This looks super cool. So, how come I haven't heard of it until the KS launched?

There is so little to go on here, it's no wonder the campaign has stalled.
This needs to get out in front of people, or it will barely fund. Or worse, fail.

Get the word out. And no, not just on Facebook and Twitter.
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Captain Peach
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Ghool wrote:
As the title states.
And where's the marketing?
This looks super cool. So, how come I haven't heard of it until the KS launched?

There is so little to go on here, it's no wonder the campaign has stalled.
This needs to get out in front of people, or it will barely fund. Or worse, fail.

Get the word out. And no, not just on Facebook and Twitter.


Brant, not sure if you are a backer or have been following the campaign, but prelaunch the game was being played at local stores in playtest form, was brought to Fargo to play at Lance Myxter's local store with him before his review and the launch, will be reviewed by Nick from Board Game Brawl, and was at Con of the North in the twin cities this last weekend.

To my understanding, there are no more conventions in the local area during the campaign our team could attend during the campaign, but on a side note, isn't funding the goal?... I don't understand this psychological need for every project to do 1000% the goal. Would it be nice? Sure, but also not realistic. 100% Funding ensures the game gets made in more copies than the KS Backers and ensures it FURTHER gets in front of people and builds a fanbase At least those are my thoughts.
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Captain Peach
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Ooops, I forgot also, the lead into the Kickstarter had the developer and co-designer Ben Pohl posting images and teasers in the Chibi, SDE and AQ Forums and facebook fanpages before the Launch for like 3 months?
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Brant Benoit
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cjpeach2004 wrote:
Ooops, I forgot also, the lead into the Kickstarter had the developer and co-designer Ben Pohl posting images and teasers in the Chibi, SDE and AQ Forums and facebook fanpages before the Launch for like 3 months?


I am a backer.
I'm also not in the Twin Cities area. I'm in Canada.

All the places you said you posted don't include BGG.

There are literally 3 threads on this game here.
What I'm asking is how come you haven't even thought to use BGG for exposure?

This is a brand new miniatures game in a severely empty niche. Why have you not tried to tap into this audience?
Chibi fans are not the only people whom might be interested in this.
This is a new KS with great production. It should be gangbusters on KS and be on the hotness.

Yet it is neither.

I'm not saying you should be looking to get 1000% funded.
But wouldn't you like to?
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Captain Peach
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Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
Ooops, I forgot also, the lead into the Kickstarter had the developer and co-designer Ben Pohl posting images and teasers in the Chibi, SDE and AQ Forums and facebook fanpages before the Launch for like 3 months?


I am a backer.
I'm also not in the Twin Cities area. I'm in Canada.

All the places you said you posted don't include BGG.

There are literally 3 threads on this game here.
What I'm asking is how come you haven't even thought to use BGG for exposure?

This is a brand new miniatures game in a severely empty niche. Why have you not tried to tap into this audience?
Chibi fans are not the only people whom might be interested in this.
This is a new KS with great production. It should be gangbusters on KS and be on the hotness.

Yet it is neither.

I'm not saying you should be looking to get 1000% funded.
But wouldn't you like to?


I absolutely would! And I think yes, the game may have that potential as you said, BUT;

- With Limited Funds that are needed for reviews? Aside from Developer Blogs, which we did a few, how else does one get "exposure" on BGG? None of us have found any other avenues on here that would give any exposure. If you have recommendations I would be happy to hear it. Our press release went out to pretty much everyone in the BG Industry, including Eric Martin who is at New York Toy Fair, The Dice Tower,assorted Blogs etc. Ads on Facebook were bought as they tend to be more reliable metrically than BGG ads, which are expensive and according to other creators I have spoken to yield little returns if at all.

So by all means, if you have ways to help we absolutely would be open to hearing about it here, via PM on Kickstarter or even chatting with myself or Ben personally via facebook chat to get a dialogue open.

And hell yes, better the game does, the better it is for everyone involved, my point was simply that funding in a severely congested Kickstarter environment is an accomplishment these days for many.

That said, MUCH love to our Canadian Backers, we worked for 4 weeks back and forth to ensure another Rail Raiders wouldn't happen to you
 
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Brant Benoit
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Well, it looks as though you have resin prototypes.
Have you thought about sending a sample figure or two to painters with YouTube channels?
I would have started some threads here in your own forum on the game to answer any questions. It seems you're pretty engaged here so it's a good idea for getting more eyes on the project.
I also think you might be limiting yourself a bit much by focusing solely on the board game crowd. Get on dakkadakka, Table Top Gaming news and other miniatures related and table top gaming sites. This is a mainly two player skirmish, which is exactly what miniature gamers are looking for.

Play throughs, rule books, turn explanations and overviews don't cost you anything. If you can't afford reviews then these things are essential.

Post those videos here, YouTube and anywhere else you can post a video.

Honestly, I feel you guys have something cool here, and with current competition on KS being pretty sparse, you should be doing a lot better than you are.

Look beyond the board game audience and you'll find a huge dearth of players willing to buy your game.
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Captain Peach
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We had talked to a few people about painting the minis BEFORE the reviews needed to be done and before the campaign, none of the timelines for those that DIDN'T cost money were possible, and it simply isn't in the budget to lose one of the mosels we are using for said reviews and demos to let a free painter paint/or not paint it "possibly" during the campaign. But yes, that was a hope we originally had!

Does starting a thread on here about answering questions when there doesn't seem to be any feel like it would do anything though? I feel like that MIGHT be a dead forum as there hasn't really been any non-KS or non-Facebook questions no? Is this something most games do (I follow SOME games and have not seen it but as a backer of more games than I I would think you pay attention to such things much more)?

We have the play through, rulebook and reviews, all of which have either been submitted to be added to bgg, are added to BGG /and are on the campaign page

I appreciate the feeling on the game's design/look/overall everything a lot Brant And I agree on the potential as I said.

It looks like you have been posting on dakkadakka for us Table Top Gaming News got our press release, I am not sure people really like joining just to plug your game do they? And Beasts of War had an article about us and it seemed to not boost the funding even a little yet so who knows. These are all good avenues to jump into for sure!
 
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Brant Benoit
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I'll send an interview PM tomorrow and get an article on Hand Cannon Online for you. I used to cover KS campaigns all the time and a new article let is about due I suppose.

Had you contacted myself, I would have painted it for free and sent everything back. I did this for one KS campaign already and I do it for the exposure. I make enough on Patreon and YT adverts that I'm able to do these sorts things.

But yes, I think adding all the stuff to the BGG page will help. Starting threads also helps with exposure here, because for a short time your thread and game are on the front page. Same goes for any submitted images. You can also add some social goals if it's feasible, for BGG subscribers to the game page, and game fans. The more clicks this game page gets, the more prominent it becomes on the front page.

You have a good start. I just think with a bit of extra push you can really make this a pretty big success.
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Christopher Dong
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cjpeach2004 wrote:

Does starting a thread on here about answering questions when there doesn't seem to be any feel like it would do anything though? I feel like that MIGHT be a dead forum as there hasn't really been any non-KS or non-Facebook questions no? Is this something most games do (I follow SOME games and have not seen it but as a backer of more games than I I would think you pay attention to such things much more)?
Yes. Not necessarily. Generally yes in one form or another.

While fan generated activity and discussion threads are preferred, when it is lacking the Creators should step up to initiate the activity and discussion. Could it still result in a ‘Dead Forum’? That is a distinct possibility, but it is a certainty if they don’t try.

High activity KS Comment discussions are good to have but are hampered by the lack of organization and limited ability to have conversations/sequential discussions. BGG discussion threads are easier to follow.

Facebook is a double-edged sword. It can be a good location for discussion and engagement for those who do Facebook, but it also leaves out those who are apathetic towards or anti-Facebook. (For myself, while I have Facebook account I don’t find ‘doing’ Facebook to be a useful way to spend my time so I rarely visit including when a boardgame I am interested in has a Facebook presence.)

BGG is my neutral home base for my due diligence in games I am interested in and trying to decide whether I will Back it on KS. The game’s BGG page is an important part of my decision on whether to Back a game on KS or not and I know I am not alone in this. No BGG page is close to the kiss of death. An empty or near empty BGG Game page is not much better. It sows seeds of doubt. The Creators are the game’s #1 fans. Why aren’t they here, active, and promoting their game? What am I missing? There are many fish in the KS boardgame sea. Maybe I should look for a different fish.

Ghool wrote:
I think adding all the stuff to the BGG page will help. Starting threads also helps with exposure here, because for a short time your thread and game are on the front page. Same goes for any submitted images. You can also add some social goals if it's feasible, for BGG subscribers to the game page, and game fans. The more clicks this game page gets, the more prominent it becomes on the front page.

You have a good start. I just think with a bit of extra push you can really make this a pretty big success.
+1

Cross post your Developer Diaries to the Alpha’s Forums. They contain good stuff. Make it easy for fans and potential Backers to find and read them. Don’t make them work to find them by scrolling down to the Links section and making them clink on the “BGG Blog Post” link. I bet most people don’t/won’t scroll down that far. This is the first time I did because I was wondering where the Developer Diaries you mentioned were.

If there are good discussions or questions occurring on Facebook, summarize them and post them here. If you are asking questions there and getting feedback, also ask them here.

Post your ‘Solo Sessions – Alphas’ video to the video section.


Please don’t take this post as a ‘Bash’ I am really interested in Alphas and am excited to see it come to life. Who doesn’t want to play a superheroes vs villains (objective based) skirmish game with Chibis and 3D buildings and scenery? I can tell it is a passion project for you from the KS campaign page. However, like Ghool, I am a bit confused as to why that passion and excitement is missing from the BGG game page.
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Captain Peach
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I agree completely on the Kickstarter Comment section of ANY good project. However, I beg to differ on Facebook. According to nation statistics the # of people who don't use Facebook daily dwindles and dwindles. Also, comparing how intuitive FB is in groups, blogs etc vs BGG is just... crazy. I love BGG but any person I try to bring here so I don't need to cross post immediately turns away. And at Con of the North I met many gamers who surprisingly had no idea what BGG or say Rahdo was/were. That said though, I understand your points about the BGG page. I guess we have just seen little value in it based on things other independent creators have stated. It was something along the lines of an active FB page is like saying you have 10k likes on your facebook page. It isn't indicative of any real value. People talk. That doesn't ensure backers.

I have begun posting blogs differently beginning tonight

I don't think anything you said Christopher was even nearing a "bash", I think it was an awesome guy trying to give some people well intended advice and nailing it! You are the best and never hesitate to give us feedback on anything
 
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Brant Benoit
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cjpeach2004 wrote:
I agree completely on the Kickstarter Comment section of ANY good project. However, I beg to differ on Facebook. According to nation statistics the # of people who don't use Facebook daily dwindles and dwindles. Also, comparing how intuitive FB is in groups, blogs etc vs BGG is just... crazy. I love BGG but any person I try to bring here so I don't need to cross post immediately turns away. And at Con of the North I met many gamers who surprisingly had no idea what BGG or say Rahdo was/were. That said though, I understand your points about the BGG page. I guess we have just seen little value in it based on things other independent creators have stated. It was something along the lines of an active FB page is like saying you have 10k likes on your facebook page. It isn't indicative of any real value. People talk. That doesn't ensure backers.

I have begun posting blogs differently beginning tonight

I don't think anything you said Christopher was even nearing a "bash", I think it was an awesome guy trying to give some people well intended advice and nailing it! You are the best and never hesitate to give us feedback on anything


The big spenders on boutique games similar to this one hang out here.
As do the secondary sellers and speculators.

While I fully understand the average gamer doesn't know about BGG, the collectors and big spenders sure do. The average gamer has no idea about Kickstarter either, and it's certainly not about the interface.
While you may not find greater numbers of people to talk about your game the average person visits, you'll find more people willing to take a financial risk on your product on BGG.
 
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Derry Salewski
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Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.
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Captain Peach
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Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
I agree completely on the Kickstarter Comment section of ANY good project. However, I beg to differ on Facebook. According to nation statistics the # of people who don't use Facebook daily dwindles and dwindles. Also, comparing how intuitive FB is in groups, blogs etc vs BGG is just... crazy. I love BGG but any person I try to bring here so I don't need to cross post immediately turns away. And at Con of the North I met many gamers who surprisingly had no idea what BGG or say Rahdo was/were. That said though, I understand your points about the BGG page. I guess we have just seen little value in it based on things other independent creators have stated. It was something along the lines of an active FB page is like saying you have 10k likes on your facebook page. It isn't indicative of any real value. People talk. That doesn't ensure backers.

I have begun posting blogs differently beginning tonight

I don't think anything you said Christopher was even nearing a "bash", I think it was an awesome guy trying to give some people well intended advice and nailing it! You are the best and never hesitate to give us feedback on anything


The big spenders on boutique games similar to this one hang out here.
As do the secondary sellers and speculators.

While I fully understand the average gamer doesn't know about BGG, the collectors and big spenders sure do. The average gamer has no idea about Kickstarter either, and it's certainly not about the interface.
While you may not find greater numbers of people to talk about your game the average person visits, you'll find more people willing to take a financial risk on your product on BGG.



That's fair. I guess YMMV for sure, but from the multitude of serious gamers I have and do talk to, they also do not use BGG like ever as publishers seem as/more active now on FB and (sadly) Twitter/Instagram.
 
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scifiantihero wrote:
Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.


Some do. I can say from paying attention our game has garnered about 15 local stores, that is because of facebook, not BGG in the slightest as 10 of them in PM have said they don't pay attention to BGG anymore so again, YMMV.

I have semi-course corrected and began posting on here.
 
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Brant Benoit
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cjpeach2004 wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.


Some do. I can say from paying attention our game has garnered about 15 local stores, that is because of facebook, not BGG in the slightest as 10 of them in PM have said they don't pay attention to BGG anymore so again, YMMV.

I have semi-course corrected and began posting on here.


It's funny what you say about the ease of using FB. And that's because I find it a horrible mess of a UI that is difficult to use and navigate.
I think it's less an issue of complexity and more an issue of numbers.
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Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.


Some do. I can say from paying attention our game has garnered about 15 local stores, that is because of facebook, not BGG in the slightest as 10 of them in PM have said they don't pay attention to BGG anymore so again, YMMV.

I have semi-course corrected and began posting on here.


It's funny what you say about the ease of using FB. And that's because I find it a horrible mess of a UI that is difficult to use and navigate.
I think it's less an issue of complexity and more an issue of numbers.


I find FB pleasant to look at (I would assume many do given it's usage rate and the psychologists that influence it's design) as well as very intuitive. I have never had a question of how to format or DO anything there, I always just know, because it makes sense. And while I love Aldie, BGG.... is not, and as people have admitted and said many times, BGG looks dated and is NOT intuitive as to how to post/whereto post/etc. Even submitting photos is under misc? That's downright silly!
 
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Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.


Some do. I can say from paying attention our game has garnered about 15 local stores, that is because of facebook, not BGG in the slightest as 10 of them in PM have said they don't pay attention to BGG anymore so again, YMMV.

I have semi-course corrected and began posting on here.


It's funny what you say about the ease of using FB. And that's because I find it a horrible mess of a UI that is difficult to use and navigate.
I think it's less an issue of complexity and more an issue of numbers.


But to that numbers point, our team offered something free, all people had to do was go to BGG and become a fan. Of 170 people, and I don't count 4 fans on here as it's our team, they won't come on here. Having double checked that includes almost all (13 stores).
 
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Brant Benoit
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cjpeach2004 wrote:
Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.


Some do. I can say from paying attention our game has garnered about 15 local stores, that is because of facebook, not BGG in the slightest as 10 of them in PM have said they don't pay attention to BGG anymore so again, YMMV.

I have semi-course corrected and began posting on here.


It's funny what you say about the ease of using FB. And that's because I find it a horrible mess of a UI that is difficult to use and navigate.
I think it's less an issue of complexity and more an issue of numbers.


But to that numbers point, our team offered something free, all people had to do was go to BGG and become a fan. Of 170 people, and I don't count 4 fans on here as it's our team, they won't come on here. Having double checked that includes almost all (13 stores).


That's more a result of not having enough presence on BGG itself, than trying to drive folks here.

Regardless though, you need to promote yourself as much as possible, in as many places as you can. It never hurts, and even if you only get 5 people from BGG (but you needed to more pre-campaign hype here to get significant numbers), it's 5 more paying customers that you wouldn't have otherwise.

<-------this guy is one of those.
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Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
Ghool wrote:
cjpeach2004 wrote:
scifiantihero wrote:
Hate fb. Spend all day on bgg.


Some do. I can say from paying attention our game has garnered about 15 local stores, that is because of facebook, not BGG in the slightest as 10 of them in PM have said they don't pay attention to BGG anymore so again, YMMV.

I have semi-course corrected and began posting on here.


It's funny what you say about the ease of using FB. And that's because I find it a horrible mess of a UI that is difficult to use and navigate.
I think it's less an issue of complexity and more an issue of numbers.


But to that numbers point, our team offered something free, all people had to do was go to BGG and become a fan. Of 170 people, and I don't count 4 fans on here as it's our team, they won't come on here. Having double checked that includes almost all (13 stores).


That's more a result of not having enough presence on BGG itself, than trying to drive folks here.

Regardless though, you need to promote yourself as much as possible, in as many places as you can. It never hurts, and even if you only get 5 people from BGG (but you needed to more pre-campaign hype here to get significant numbers), it's 5 more paying customers that you wouldn't have otherwise.

<-------this guy is one of those.


And THIS guy appreciates the advice good sir!
 
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Brant Benoit
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I will say one last thing here gents;

This is a website, while dated, and not-so-user-friendly, it has a unique user base of over 1 million.
That come here primarily for one thing.
Board games.

They don't come here to update their status.
Chat with friends about their day.
Check to see if Aunt Hilda posted a new picture of the baby.
Or anything else that hasn't to do with board games.

If you continue to make little headway, I would suggest a relaunch, and spend a bit on some marketing, and gaining some hype on BGG.

You obviously have spent money on a killer prototype, have rules, demos, play throughs, minis, a cool theme. But you are missing that buzz where it counts. Regardless of what the average gamer, retailer, or publisher thinks, your game can literally live or die by what this website says about it.

You need more marketing in the place where board games are the primary interest, and it's worth looking at and re-evaluating your campaign based on this.
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Ghool wrote:
I will say one last thing here gents;

This is a website, while dated, and not-so-user-friendly, it has a unique user base of over 1 million.
That come here primarily for one thing.
Board games.

They don't come here to update their status.
Chat with friends about their day.
Check to see if Aunt Hilda posted a new picture of the baby.
Or anything else that hasn't to do with board games.

If you continue to make little headway, I would suggest a relaunch, and spend a bit on some marketing, and gaining some hype on BGG.

You obviously have spent money on a killer prototype, have rules, demos, play throughs, minis, a cool theme. But you are missing that buzz where it counts. Regardless of what the average gamer, retailer, or publisher thinks, your game can literally live or die by what this website says about it.

You need more marketing in the place where board games are the primary interest, and it's worth looking at and re-evaluating your campaign based on this.


That's fair, and I get that. Having said that. We paid for reviews and intend on making this launch work. It is likely we will pass funding for sure, and anything extra is nice but not needed. Thanks for all the advice my friend.
 
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Conrado Zafra
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I just had to login to give my point of view.

I agree with most of what Ghool said.
I don't use FB nor BGG. I am/was a serious gamer and when I want some info about one game I come here... But I don't come here to get the latest news because, as we all know, BGG has a "dated UI".
That been said, if you don't exist in BGG you don't exist in the board game community.

I'm from Spain, Europe, so all the (great) work you've done promoting the game locally has no impact in me. You need to have some source of info to promote your game internationally and for that this entry and the KS page lacks.
It lacks info about the game, pictures about components and renders of the minis (why I can see some here and there aren't in the KS page to showcase?!?, why you have taken the time to write some spotlights and you have yet to send them as a bi-daily update form?)
Take a look at certain other superhero boardgame (number 1 of the hotness right now): tons of renders, tons of pictures (even with the minis without any paintwork, just some general photos while demoing it's not enough: take some close-ups!), tons of varied threads, reviews... Different kinds of sources to get info about the game and make an "educated guess" if you are going to like that game.
... And the easier the better: because people usually don't like to make an effort to discover a new game.

There is a LOT of hype, but also a lot of info; and if you start rolling early on, you get the "snowball effect".


I'm SURE the game will fund, but I'm sad because this will be another gem who will fly under the radar of many people....
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