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Subject: Beginner questions rss

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Garfield Cat
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Hi

1.
If I could reach a craftsman in more than one way, do I have to use the way where I'm forced to use a monument? For example -> I could reach a craftsman directly within 2 steps, but also another craftsman within 3 steps -> monument -> 2 steps.

Video example from Rahdo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVdXAFUQ_3w&t=17m19s

The white monument is getting increased to level 2 with clay. White can reach craftsman via water or by using the green monument as node. Can she chose?

2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XESVWMEO4c&t=4m57s
Is this correct? I think yes, his subtitle corrects him. But I think this is correct?

3.
If you use a hub you have to pay 1 cattle. To the player the hub belongs to or to the common stock?

4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePPuleCnAE8&t=15m10s
They place a second craftsman but one of them moves it down because the upper resource is already claimed by the other craftsman. But for me that was a correct placement, he still can claim another ressource.

Example:
Craftsman A claims ressource ivory1 and ivory2
Second craftsman B is placed where it could reach ivory1 but also ivory3.
So is this a correct placement of craftsman B?

Ok, they correct themselves at about 17:05, it's legal. So that means that a resource can be within reach of two craftsmen and could be consumed by either one. Correct?

5.
Placing a secondary craftsman. I must place it within reach of his primary crafsman (hubs allowed) and he needs access to one ressource, but this can be the same one as the primary one already uses.

If that's the case, the primary and its secondary craftsman only reach one ressource of its type, they become totally useless. Because you are forced to use the secondary to upgrade your monument, but you can't because there is only one ressource.

Is that correct?

You can only make it usable again by placing another ressource tile or another primary craftsman (with its own resource) within reach of the secondary?

6.
If you have to use a secondary craftsman, you have to pay the primary and the secondary, don't you?

7.
Throne maker. Does his good count either as ivory or as wood? Is his goods worth 1 or 2 goods?

I mean there's also another secondary craftsman that produces something with wood. But this doesn't matter? You just have to look at the pictures? One produces a chair/throne and the other one a mask?
 
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Alex P
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The person upgrading their monument chooses which craftsmen and which resources they use.
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Shingo Ishikawa
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She can choose but every hub you use you need to pay cow to the bank so not sure why she’d choose that option. I think you always want to use cheapest route.
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Garfield Cat
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Ah, the german explanation is a little bit confusing, the english one is much clearer to me.

 
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Garfield Cat
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3. If you use a hub you have to pay 1 cattle. To the player the hub belongs to or to the common stock?
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
3. If you use a hub you have to pay 1 cattle. To the player the hub belongs to or to the common stock?

To the common stock.

Using hubs and building craftsmen are the only ways in which cattle can end up going back to the common stock. Everything else is payed to the cards (or distributed during the turn order bidding).
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Grant
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
3. If you use a hub you have to pay 1 cattle. To the player the hub belongs to or to the common stock?

The common stock. (There is one god who changes this, however)
 
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Matthias Mahr
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
Ah, the german explanation is a little bit confusing, the english one is much clearer to me.

To make it maybe a bit clearer: the rules are the way they are to cover an edge case, using the Nomads specialist. Normally, there would always be the option to avoid paying to a hub, if the craftsman is within reach of your monument. However, with Nomads, it's possible to place a "wall of monuments" between your monument and the craftsman, so there is no legible way around. While your monument might still be only 2 or 3 spaces away, since you have to pass a monument, you are forced to pay for a hub.
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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Susumu wrote:
Normally, there would always be the option to avoid paying to a hub, if the craftsman is within reach of your monument. However, with Nomads, it's possible to place a "wall of monuments" between your monument and the craftsman, so there is no legible way around.

Even without Nomads, if you're three spaces away diagonally, and someone places a hub on your way, you have to use that hub, right? It's not super common, but you don't necessarily need Nomads to accomplish this.
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Ryan C
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WilbertK wrote:
Susumu wrote:
Normally, there would always be the option to avoid paying to a hub, if the craftsman is within reach of your monument. However, with Nomads, it's possible to place a "wall of monuments" between your monument and the craftsman, so there is no legible way around.

Even without Nomads, if you're three spaces away diagonally, and someone places a hub on your way, you have to use that hub, right? It's not super common, but you don't necessarily need Nomads to accomplish this.


I believe that is correct. The rules say that if you travel through a monument, then you must use that monument as a hub and pay for it, which, to me, is a callout to the exact scenario you've described.
 
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Matthias Mahr
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You are of course correct, Wilbert, if the "forced hub" is diagonal adjacent to the craftsman, it would be possible. In that case, there are no other 3 space paths to reach the craftsman (unless there can be some water used for it, of course), so of course it applies here as well. Was not thinking about it. The main rule is: if there is another legal path around, you are allowed to use it, but if you have to pass a monument, you have to pay the hub, even if the distance between your monument and the craftsman is 3 or lower.
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Garfield Cat
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What about point 2?
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
What about point 2?

What's point 2? It's not clear to me what the question is.
 
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Garfield Cat
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He describes the travelling over the water. If you turn on the subtitle it says "diagonal is not adjacent, so this is not possible".

But for me it seems totally correct. It's not one big water area, they're two. But you still can hop from one to the other diagonally?
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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You can hop from one water mass to another diagonally. If two water masses touch on a corner it doesn't make them into one water mass though.
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Garfield Cat
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4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePPuleCnAE8&t=15m10s
They place a second craftsman but one of them moves it down because the upper resource is already claimed by the other craftsman. But for me that was a correct placement, he still can claim another ressource.

Example:
Craftsman A claims ressource ivory1 and ivory2
Second craftsman B is placed where it could reach ivory1 but also ivory3.
So is this a correct placement of craftsman B?

Ok, they correct themselves at about 17:05, it's legal. So that means that a resource can be within reach of two craftsmen and could be consumed by either one. Correct?
 
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Garfield Cat
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5. Placing a secondary craftsman. I must place it within reach of his primary crafsman (hubs allowed) and he needs access to one ressource, but this can be the same one as the primary one already uses.

If that's the case, the primary and its secondary craftsman only reach one ressource of its type, they become totally useless. Because you are forced to use the secondary to upgrade your monument, but you can't because there is only one ressource.

Is that correct?

You can only make it usable again by placing another ressource tile or another primary craftsman (with its own resource) within reach of the secondary?
 
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Alex P
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Or by extending their range by placing a river.
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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An image would really help here. I'm not watching videos to find out what you mean, sorry.
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
Example:
Craftsman A claims ressource ivory1 and ivory2
Second craftsman B is placed where it could reach ivory1 but also ivory3.
So is this a correct placement of craftsman B?

Ok, they correct themselves at about 17:05, it's legal. So that means that a resource can be within reach of two craftsmen and could be consumed by either one. Correct?

A resource can be used by multiple craftsmen (in different turns). A craftsman needs to be able to reach at least ONE resource that his colleagues cannot get to. It's okay if he can also reach resources that are already in use.

Secondary craftsmen are different from their primary counterparts, meaning that it's fine to place a secondary craftsman in such a way that all resources he can get to can also be claimed by the corresponding primary craftsmen.

Additional secondary craftsmen of the samen type need to be placed in such a way that there's at least one resource that they can get to that the other secondary craftsman cannot get to.
 
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Grant
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
So that means that a resource can be within reach of two craftsmen and could be consumed by either one. Correct?

Correct.
 
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Grant
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
5. Placing a secondary craftsman. I must place it within reach of his primary crafsman (hubs allowed) and he needs access to one ressource, but this can be the same one as the primary one already uses.

If that's the case, the primary and its secondary craftsman only reach one ressource of its type, they become totally useless. Because you are forced to use the secondary to upgrade your monument, but you can't because there is only one ressource.

Is that correct?

You can only make it usable again by placing another ressource tile or another primary craftsman (with its own resource) within reach of the secondary?

That is correct. Shutting production down like that can be a very effective strategy.
 
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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GarfieldKlon wrote:
5. Placing a secondary craftsman. I must place it within reach of his primary crafsman (hubs allowed) and he needs access to one ressource, but this can be the same one as the primary one already uses.

If that's the case, the primary and its secondary craftsman only reach one ressource of its type, they become totally useless. Because you are forced to use the secondary to upgrade your monument, but you can't because there is only one ressource.

Is that correct?

You can only make it usable again by placing another ressource tile or another primary craftsman (with its own resource) within reach of the secondary?


This all seems correct, but there's more ways to improve the situation. Placing water tiles (with rain ceremony) can help. Picking a god like Atete or Eshu can help.
 
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Garfield Cat
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Thanks for all your answers and helping me

I thought the video is very good source, because you see the board itself and I'm referencing and explain what is unclear to me. I'm also pointing to the very specific point in the video by using the timestamp.
 
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Garfield Cat
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6.
If you have to use a secondary craftsman, you have to pay the primary and the secondary, don't you?

7.
Throne maker. Does his good count either as ivory or as wood? Is his goods worth 1 or 2 goods?

I mean there's also another secondary craftsman that produces something with wood. But this doesn't matter? You just have to look at the pictures? One produces a chair/throne and the other one a mask?
 
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