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Fields of Fire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Patrol Experience Angst rss

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Robert Fabbro
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Hookay....

I have scoured the forums here and at CSW, I have even tried to answer other players questions on this topic, but inevitably, whenever I get to the Normandy Patrol Mission, the wheels fall off the cart regarding the Experience rewards.

..And inevitably, I abandon the campaign.

Yes, I know the game is solitaire and I am free to do what I want, but darn it, I want to play it right!

So here's the thing:

I earn experience for occupying the Route Points. Ben has clarified that one needs to merely "touch" to earn these points. Got it.

The bigger problem is the "Securing a Route Point" reward.

The Mission instructions imply that I should be trying to get my platoon back to friendly lines, but "securing" requires me to stick around at the Route Point.

There seems to me to be a disconnect between the two. What am I missing?

I so want to love this game, but the Patrols derail me every time.zombie

I'm actually thinking of simply eliminating Patrol Missions from my games and playing the Campaigns through that way.
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Stuart
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I'm wrestling with exactly this. The only thing I have pondered is that somewhere the rulebook says something like 'if your lads aren't all back tucked up in bed by the end of turn 10, assume they scurry back to their line of their own accord after that time without penalty'. So you could play it that you secure and sit on the cards until the end of turn 10. Not sure that's really in the spirit of a patrol though, but then again by implication nor is the XP scoring structure......

If you want to play it to your least advantage don't take the XPs for those elements, but I wouldn't let it derail the fun of the overall campaign mate.
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Matthew Jones
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Blacksmith61 wrote:
The bigger problem is the "Securing a Route Point" reward.

The Mission instructions imply that I should be trying to get my platoon back to friendly lines, but "securing" requires me to stick around at the Route Point.


Securing on Page 5 of the FoF 2nd Ed Manual:
FoFRules wrote:
Occupied, Cleared, and Secured Cards — A terrain card is
Occupied when there is at least one friendly unit on the card. A terrain
card is Cleared if there are no enemy units or Potential Contact
Markers on the card. A terrain card is Secured when it is both Occupied
and Cleared. Ignore any enemy casualties or VOF Markers
on a card when determining if the card is Cleared.


Hope that clears it up.

My read is that if you have units on the card and no enemy or PC markers then you're good to move on to the next waypoint.
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Gianluca Spessato
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Quote:
I'm actually thinking of simply eliminating Patrol Missions from my games and playing the Campaigns through that way.

Patrol missions are more meaningful if you accept to play the next mission with the same cards and the same situation obtained during patrols.
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Matthew Jones
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If I may make a suggestion: get the PDF version of the rules, because then you can use the search function; *so* much easier. The PDF should be required in a "game" this complex and probably should have been included in every physical copy.
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Steve
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hieronymus62 wrote:
Quote:
I'm actually thinking of simply eliminating Patrol Missions from my games and playing the Campaigns through that way.

Patrol missions are more meaningful if you accept to play the next mission with the same cards and the same situation obtained during patrols.


That's a really interesting idea.
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Robert Fabbro
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So the bigger question (at least for me) becomes, when is a card considered secured? At the moment it occurs, that is, immediately? Or at the END of the Mission?

Note that Rule 10.3 Experience mentions that determining when a card is "Cleared" is done at the end of the mission, but does not specify when this is determined for "Secured".

Based on that, I will go with the "Secure-and-Continue" doctrine.

It's starting to make sense, but like many elements of this wonderful (no irony intended) system, it requires a bit of mental gymnastics!

Thanks to all the excellent responses.thumbsup
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Matthew Jones
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Blacksmith61 wrote:
So the bigger question (at least for me) becomes, when is a card considered secured? At the moment it occurs, that is, immediately? Or at the END of the Mission?


And I think the answer to that is at the end of the mission. However, you're not supposed to have it secured. Those are bonus points above and beyond the success of the mission.

Your mission is to walk the Route Points and get back to your own lines (in FoF this is the MLR: Main Line of Resistance). You are not to seek out a firefight; though certainly you can engage if you are engaged. Your main job in a patrol is to find out what's in front of you and bring it back to the Battalion S2 officer (intelligence guy). That's why the mission is repeated 3 times, once per platoon; this way he and the Battalion CO can determine where the next offensive should be (which is Mission #6 in the booklet).

This is why you must return to your own lines by the end of Turn 10, otherwise the mission is a failure and the Captain probably send out a 2nd patrol looking for your lost patrol. Which means that you probably *won't* have your OBJ cards cleared and secured at the end of the mission.

FoF Rules 2nd Ed. wrote:
11.4. Combat Patrols
Combat patrols only need to have any unit from the patrol occupy
the objective and route points to fulfill the mission
requirements for victory determination. There is no need to clear or
secure the objective or route points, unless specifically
required by the mission instructions. If combat patrols are performed
on the same map, place new PC Markers between each
patrol as these missions take place over days and weeks.


In the Missions booklet, page 12, my take on the experience points is that if you occupy the objective card, then you get 2 points. If you can occupy and clear the card (no PC or enemy at the end of the mission) then you get 4 points (2 for occupy and 2 more in addition for clearing). The mission succeeds based on your simply having occupied it however.

Likewise for Route Points, the scoring is similar. 1 point for having sent someone through it, 1 more for having it clear at mission's end (hard to do for a patrol's worth of guys, whose specific mission is not to take and hold ground)

So Robert, your OP states that you have to hang around to secure it. Yes, you could try, but that's not the real mission, and your Captain (or Major or Battalion S2 officer) would much rather you get back to the MLR with your new intelligence than take and hold ground. The whole point of the patrol is to find out what's out there, so the S2 and the Battalion commander can determine where to apply pressure in the next offensive mission.

Great watching for this is the 8th episode of Band of Brother entitled "The Patrol"

Hope this helps.
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Gary Logs
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Similarly from pg 56 in 10.3.1 "Gaining Experience":

“Clear” means all enemy units and PC markers are removed.
“Secure” means a friendly unit occupies the location. “Clear
and Secure” means both.

Determine whether a card is cleared at the end of a mission. You
do not get points for a card that is cleared during a mission but
then reoccupied by the enemy before the mission is over, and
you cannot get double points for clearing a card twice.
 
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oystein eker
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Great read!
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Peter Kossits
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garysax wrote:

That's a really interesting idea.


It's the way you're supposed to do it.
The patrol missions take place on the same terrain as a more serious mission right after the patrols.

I agree with the original poster. Patrols are just so confusing. I find that they also lead to pretty severe experience bloat in return for what are very easy scouting missions.

 
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