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Pendragon: The Fall of Roman Britain» Forums » Rules

Subject: Non-Player Withdrawal rss

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Billy Pringles
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So I am playing Saxons solo. I have six raiders in Trinovante and there is a fort, a town, a cavalry, and a militia. How do they withdraw? Do both go in the fort, militia first, and leave the town undefended? Or does the cavalry go into the fort and the militia into the town? Thanks for any help!
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Marc Gouyon-Rety
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See the 2nd bullet of 8.4.1.
In this case, the Cavalry withdraws in the Fort, and the Militia in the Town.
 
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Andrew Clark
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GouyonRety wrote:
See the 2nd bullet of 8.4.1.
In this case, the Cavalry withdraws in the Fort, and the Militia in the Town.


Hi Marc, I'm still a bit confused about this.

Can you please explain what the Non-Player Battle Tactics sheet means by "withdraw in reverse order as placing units (8.4.1)"?

Because 8.4.1 seems to say to withdraw in the same order as placing units:

Quote:

...target enemy and place Friendly Stronghold pieces first—Forts, then Towns, then Hillforts, finally Settlements—then units—Cavalry, then Comitates, then Warbands, then Militia, finally Raiders. Withdraw Friendly pieces into Strongholds in the same order
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Marc Gouyon-Rety
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profanicus wrote:
GouyonRety wrote:
See the 2nd bullet of 8.4.1.
In this case, the Cavalry withdraws in the Fort, and the Militia in the Town.


Hi Marc, I'm still a bit confused about this.

Can you please explain what the Non-Player Battle Tactics sheet means by "withdraw in reverse order as placing units (8.4.1)"?

Because 8.4.1 seems to say to withdraw in the same order as placing units:

Quote:

...target enemy and place Friendly Stronghold pieces first—Forts, then Towns, then Hillforts, finally Settlements—then units—Cavalry, then Comitates, then Warbands, then Militia, finally Raiders. Withdraw Friendly pieces into Strongholds in the same order
Hmmm.. This does seem inconsistent indeed. I have not been directly managing the nonplayer rules so I would like confirmation by Oerjan or, even better, Volko, but I think the player aid is in error here.
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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Looks like a late change that wasn't implemented everywhere, but I don't know for certain. AFAIK Volko handled all the final editing.

Tactically the Play Aid order makes a lot more sense to me though: withdraw the weakest units inside the walls, leave the stronger ones outside to fight the field battle if there's not enough room for them in the Stronghold.

Later,
Oerjan
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Tony Holt
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I'm a little confused here....

Per the Non-Player Battle Tactics player aid, under the Field Battle/Withdraw section, it states to first Withdraw into a Fort. Since the Fort can hold 2 units, I take this to mean that both units would Withdraw into the Fort, leaving the Town without any Withdrawn units.

I've looked through the rules and cannot find any indication that Dux units must withdraw into Dux Strongholds and Civitates units into Civitates Strongholds (unless, of course, at Fragmentation).

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Tony
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Etienne Begin
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tpholt wrote:
I'm a little confused here....

Per the Non-Player Battle Tactics player aid, under the Field Battle/Withdraw section, it states to first Withdraw into a Fort. Since the Fort can hold 2 units, I take this to mean that both units would Withdraw into the Fort, leaving the Town without any Withdrawn units.

I've looked through the rules and cannot find any indication that Dux units must withdraw into Dux Strongholds and Civitates units into Civitates Strongholds (unless, of course, at Fragmentation).

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Tony


If we go by the battlesheet unit order logic, the civitate would withdraw first into the fort as the fort has priority.

You must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible.

I have been doing it that way. I find logical for the weaker unit to withdraw first.
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Tony Holt
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beginetienne wrote:


If we go by the battlesheet unit order logic, the civitate would withdraw first into the fort as the fort has priority.

You must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible.

I have been doing it that way. I find logical for the weaker unit to withdraw first.


My confusion isn't over which unit Withdraws first, but where do the units Withdraw to. The Non-Player Battle Tactics card indicates to "Withdraw first into Fort, then Town..." Since the Fort has a capacity of 2, why don't both units Withdraw into it?

Where is it indicated that the Non-Player Bots "must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible"?

Tony
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Oerjan Ariander
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tpholt wrote:
beginetienne wrote:


If we go by the battlesheet unit order logic, the civitate would withdraw first into the fort as the fort has priority.

You must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible.

I have been doing it that way. I find logical for the weaker unit to withdraw first.


My confusion isn't over which unit Withdraws first, but where do the units Withdraw to. The Non-Player Battle Tactics card indicates to "Withdraw first into Fort, then Town..." Since the Fort has a capacity of 2, why don't both units Withdraw into it?

Where is it indicated that the Non-Player Bots "must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible"?

Tony

Battle Tactics play Aid:
"Defenders Withdraw if their defense in Assault could save that Stronghold"
(emphasis added).

If a Stronghold already has enough units in it that the current Attackers cannot successfully Assault it, any additional defending units withdrawing into it won't make it any safer; so they start looking for another Stronghold that they can save.

Regards,
Oerjan

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Tony Holt
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Oerjan wrote:
tpholt wrote:
beginetienne wrote:


If we go by the battlesheet unit order logic, the civitate would withdraw first into the fort as the fort has priority.

You must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible.

I have been doing it that way. I find logical for the weaker unit to withdraw first.


My confusion isn't over which unit Withdraws first, but where do the units Withdraw to. The Non-Player Battle Tactics card indicates to "Withdraw first into Fort, then Town..." Since the Fort has a capacity of 2, why don't both units Withdraw into it?

Where is it indicated that the Non-Player Bots "must successfully defend as many strongholds as possible"?

Tony

Battle Tactics play Aid:
"Defenders Withdraw if their defense in Assault could save that Stronghold"
(emphasis added).

If a Stronghold already has enough units in it that the current Attackers cannot successfully Assault it, any additional defending units withdrawing into it won't make it any safer; so they start looking for another Stronghold that they can save.

Regards,
Oerjan




Ok, I guess I can see that. But, just to make sure I understand it completely, would this be a fair statement:

When Withdrawing Units, the Non-Player Bot will Withdraw into a Stronghold until there are either enough units to save that Stronghold or the Capacity has been reached. Then it starts Withdrawing any leftover units into the next Stronghold. Using the previously indicated order for which units to Withdraw first.

Have I got it right?

Thanks,

Tony
 
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Marc Gouyon-Rety
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Oerjan wrote:
Looks like a late change that wasn't implemented everywhere, but I don't know for certain. AFAIK Volko handled all the final editing.

Tactically the Play Aid order makes a lot more sense to me though: withdraw the weakest units inside the walls, leave the stronger ones outside to fight the field battle if there's not enough room for them in the Stronghold.

Later,
Oerjan
There can be two logics here: preserving your best units, or inflicting maximum losses. A player could make that decision on a case-by-case, but I don't know what Volko's priority for the highest NP challenge is...
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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GouyonRety wrote:
Oerjan wrote:
Looks like a late change that wasn't implemented everywhere, but I don't know for certain. AFAIK Volko handled all the final editing.

Tactically the Play Aid order makes a lot more sense to me though: withdraw the weakest units inside the walls, leave the stronger ones outside to fight the field battle if there's not enough room for them in the Stronghold.

Later,
Oerjan
There can be two logics here: preserving your best units, or inflicting maximum losses. A player could make that decision on a case-by-case, but I don't know what Volko's priority for the highest NP challenge is...

Since the other half of that instruction is to Withdraw if the unit would inflict more losses on the attacker in an Assault than they would in a Field Battle, I suspect that Volko would go for inflicting maximum losses...

/Oerjan
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Francisco Colmenares
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And here I thought the OP was asking how to deal with withdrawal symptoms when your regular gaming partner went on a two week vacation.
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Marc Gouyon-Rety
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Oerjan wrote:
GouyonRety wrote:
Oerjan wrote:
Looks like a late change that wasn't implemented everywhere, but I don't know for certain. AFAIK Volko handled all the final editing.

Tactically the Play Aid order makes a lot more sense to me though: withdraw the weakest units inside the walls, leave the stronger ones outside to fight the field battle if there's not enough room for them in the Stronghold.

Later,
Oerjan
There can be two logics here: preserving your best units, or inflicting maximum losses. A player could make that decision on a case-by-case, but I don't know what Volko's priority for the highest NP challenge is...

Since the other half of that instruction is to Withdraw if the unit would inflict more losses on the attacker in an Assault than they would in a Field Battle, I suspect that Volko would go for inflicting maximum losses...

/Oerjan
You're most probably right here, Oerjan. Which is why I always tend to defer to you regarding the NP rules!
 
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Andrew Clark
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Cool, so the general consensus is that we should follow the Play Aid and move the militia first?
 
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Billy Pringles
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Thank you for your replies and further questions. This makes a lot more sense to me now.
 
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