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Subject: Should I buy a 2nd Core Set or Path to Carcosa Deluxe ?? rss

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John Jarvis
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A quick question for those with a lot of experience...

After completing Night of the Zealot I went out and bought Dunwich Legacy Deluxe and picked up all the scenario packs over a couple of weeks(still waiting for Lost in Time and Space to make it's way from the US).

I'm planning to build different decks and run through Dunwich Legacy a few times. I'm not not going to jump straight to Carcosa Cycle ... Yet..
(I've spent enough and I have plenty to keep me busy !!)

I have a bit of a mental block about buying a second core and having lots of useless cards lying about.

So... What do people think would be a better purchase for deck building flexibility / deck reliability etc. Another core or Path to Carcosa deluxe ?

If I bought the PtC deluxe I could put it aside until I'm done with Dunwich.... But having two copies of some of those core cards.... HELP !

 
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James J
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As you’ll be playing through Dunwich first anyway, I’d recommend getting a second core. I played my share of games with just one core and it doesn’t compete with two cores. Deck building feels horrible with one core, mostly because some of what might weigh in on a decision to include a card is simply that you only have one copy of it versus two copies of another. That shouldn’t really factor in.

If you had said you only have one core and nothing else, I’d be recommending Carcosa (or Dunwich) next, but with all of Dunwich, there’s no need for Carcosa yet. Don’t worry about the ‘wasted’ cards. The extra encounter sets are nice - you can pre build the entire core campaign or you can keep one with Carcosa and one with Dunwich.
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Joe T
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I've only got 1 core with the Dunwich cycle cards, some of Carcosa and I personally find there's plenty of options now for deck building that I don't feel like I need to buy a second core. Sure, that second machete is nice to have but now there's colt 32 and trench knife as decent alternatives to include plus powered up versions of some core cards. If you feel like you absolutely must have the most optimized deck then I can understand why you'd want to buy a second core. For a coop game I don't think that's too important though, the power levels are likely to increase with every expansion to the point where having a super optimized deck would just make the game too easy and force you to increase the difficulty to keep it interesting.
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Hedyn Brand
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People keep saying there are a lot of useless cards after getting a second core, sometimes in the post right after I tell them there aren't. Quit that. Core cards are used in all campaigns at some point, so you can build several encounter decks if you have two cores.

But to answer the question whether you should get a second core or more campaigns: Yes. You should do either

If you play it you'll know if you need that second core. You have the game right there! Play it and find out

If you decide that there just aren't enough of the core investigator cards, you should get that extra core. Take some consolation in the fact that you pay 40% less for a core than we do up here in Norway.
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James J
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killerjoe wrote:
I've only got 1 core with the Dunwich cycle cards, some of Carcosa and I personally find there's plenty of options now for deck building that I don't feel like I need to buy a second core. Sure, that second machete is nice to have but now there's colt 32 and trench knife as decent alternatives to include plus powered up versions of some core cards. If you feel like you absolutely must have the most optimized deck then I can understand why you'd want to buy a second core. For a coop game I don't think that's too important though, the power levels are likely to increase with every expansion to the point where having a super optimized deck would just make the game too easy and force you to increase the difficulty to keep it interesting.


It’s not about being optimised to me. It’s about the fact that I don’t want the fact I only have one of a card to be a defining feature of that card. I bought my second core and never looked back. The amout of money you will spend on this game for just two full deluxe cycles somewhat dwarfs the cost of the second core so...

As for value, you get 70 player cards. This excludes the fact that you also get important duplicate sets of unexpected courage and other skills, which are useful unless you exclusively play true solo. Counting investigators and their signatures/weaknesses from Carcosa, you get a similar number in Carcosa but obviously two new scenarios.

I honesty think the right answer is ‘both’ and if you’re ok with that the question becomes what order to buy them in. Then I’d say core before Carcosa.
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Tim
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I think there are a descent amount of usefull cards in a core set.

Reasons to buy a second core:
- You want deckbuilding options.
- You want to evade restrictions. Especially when playing with multiple investigators that use cards from the same class.
- You are a completionist.
- Money isn't a problem.
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Guillaume Guigue
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FFH has taken great care of not making their core cards obsolete. That said, if all you want is to do the Dunwich campaign, you can do it with a Seeker and a Guardian, as they are overflowing with good cards. But if you want to explore everything, it's simply not possible to make a Mystic deck without 2 cores.
 
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Ken Marley
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I have never regretted getting a second core. I use all of the player cards, the extra tokens, the second copies of the encounter cards, and the box.

About the only thing I don't use is the extra signature cards.
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Calvin Hobbes
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youperguy wrote:
I have never regretted getting a second core. I use all of the player cards, the extra tokens, the second copies of the encounter cards, and the box.

About the only thing I don't use is the extra signature cards.


How do some of you use the second copy of encounter cards? I have no idea what to do with them.


Regarding TS question:

Like others said I would now buy second core (huge difference) and well you will definitely buy Carcosa deluxe. Just a matter of time but that can wait for now.
 
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John Jarvis
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listrahtes wrote:
and well you will definitely buy Carcosa deluxe. Just a matter of time but that can wait for now.


Yeah your right.. just a matter of time

Should have mentioned I only play it solo !

Oh and as for people saying there are no wasted cards in a 2nd core set.
So you have a use for the second set of all the location, act and agenda cards ??

Edit - slight change
 
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James J
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SuperJoeUK wrote:
Should have mentioned I only play it solo !

True solo, or have you dabbled in two (or three or even four) handed? The only way you won't get as much out of a second core is if you only ever play with one investigator. Which might even be true now, but I'd be surprised if you stuck to that after getting addicted to the game. There are a lot of cool and interesting combos that can be done between multiple investigators (there are even cards that are literally useless in true solo).

SuperJoeUK wrote:
Oh and as for people saying there are no wasted cards in a 2nd core set.
So you have a use for the second set of all the location, act and agenda cards ??

There is no use in the second set of locations/acts/agendas. The only I can think of is having two campaigns running at once? Personally, I store all my player cards in a binder, and then Carcosa and Dunwich each take up a core box each. Inside each core box I have all base encounter cards, all base scenarios and all of the corresponding deluxe scenarios. While I'm not getting much use out of the bonus locations etc., it is slightly more convenient not to have to worry about which box I pull off the shelf whenever I want to play the core campaign, right?

As for the encounter sets, it is really nice to essentially be able to separate Carcosa and Dunwich so easily without having to worry about juggling the base encounter cards between them. Hopefully that also addresses this:
listrahtes wrote:
How do some of you use the second copy of encounter cards? I have no idea what to do with them.
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Michael Webb
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I don't understand why the encounter set pre-builders have trouble understanding that many (most?) players have no desire to pre-build and that that is a phantom value for them. I have no problem if you do that, but I would never spend time doing that, it's of zero value to me. I'm sure it's the same for the numerous other people who see those extra cards as wasted. Saying that those aren't useful is every bit as valid as saying they are because it comes down to personal game prep preferences.

On to the main point, it's up to you, but I think the duplicates of the Core cards are useful and are worth the money. If you are into the game, I think you are ultimately going to end up getting the second Core eventually anyway, and it makes sense to just have those cards first before eventually going on to get the Carcosa stuff. Having the second Core gives the card pool more symmetry, as you always will have 2 copies of each card, so there won't be any question as to what is available while you are deck building.
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John Jarvis
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Firstly, thanks for all the replies, I think I just needed a nudge to get a second core, consider that nudge received

As for playing solo, so far I have only played using one investigator, Roland Banks. I think I will have a go playing two handed.

I really like the look of the mystic class, but should probably go guardian & seeker first ?

As for the cards that won't be used, I'm with Cortex Bomb, not a pre- builder. I'm more tempted to loan them to a work colleague for a couple of weeks with some investigator cards I'm not using to see if I can get him hooked too. Then multiplayer becomes a possibility ninja
 
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Michael Webb
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SuperJoeUK wrote:
I really like the look of the mystic class, but should probably go guardian & seeker first ?


I would say go with whatever sounds appealing to you! If you are playing with 2 characters then the main thing is just that you need to have at least 1 with good combat chops and another who can gather clues. My fiancee and I did Dunwich successfully with a Guardian / Rogue combo, using the Rogue as the clue gatherer (I also had access to the Carcosa Lockpicks for the back portion of the campaign, which is a big help to Rogue clue gatherers...) and enjoyed that even though Rogues are a much-maligned class on the message boards here.

If in doubt, just start out at Easy and ramp it up if you need to! If you are planning to replay it anyway there is no harm in starting out at the lowest setting first and then cranking it up if you aren't being challenged enough.
 
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Clyde W
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Both. And then two more cores. Gotta have 4x Leo.
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Matt Watkins
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clydeiii wrote:
Both. And then two more cores. Gotta have 4x Leo.


Not sure if this is snark or not, but Leo is a unique card. A player group can only have one in play at a time. Regardless there are two copies of the upgraded Leo in one of the Dunwich decks, so with some XP, you can put two Leos in a deck with a single core.

Just as a counterpoint to most posts so far. I've played through the core campaign several times, the PoD scenarios a couple of times, a few fan-made scenarios and the whole Dunwich campaign twice, and I only have a single core set. The Carcosa player cards even make it possible to build a strong Mystic deck without a second core set. Clearly YMMV, but I'd be willing to bet that most people who have this game only have one core set.


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James J
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CortexBomb wrote:
I don't understand why the encounter set pre-builders have trouble understanding that many (most?) players have no desire to pre-build and that that is a phantom value for them. I have no problem if you do that, but I would never spend time doing that, it's of zero value to me.


I'm not sure if this was a reply to me, but if it was, it's not entirely what I was talking about. I store my Carcosa and Dunwich cycles separately (one in each of my two core boxes) and because of that it's nice to also just have a copy of the core encounter cards in each. It's a lot easier to just grab the one box than both.
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Will Betts
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Or just invite your colleague over for a beer and surreptitiously introduce AH while his judgement is impaired.... Or maybe its just me that would stoop to such underhand tactics!




SuperJoeUK wrote:
Firstly, thanks for all the replies, I think I just needed a nudge to get a second core, consider that nudge received :D

As for playing solo, so far I have only played using one investigator, Roland Banks. I think I will have a go playing two handed.

I really like the look of the mystic class, but should probably go guardian & seeker first ?

As for the cards that won't be used, I'm with Cortex Bomb, not a pre- builder. I'm more tempted to loan them to a work colleague for a couple of weeks with some investigator cards I'm not using to see if I can get him hooked too. Then multiplayer becomes a possibility :ninja:
 
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Ken Marley
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I like having the second core encounter sets so that I can have two Scenarios built before we start playing. Since the core encounter sets will be used in every campaign going forward. They will always be useful. If I were to by a third core it would be primarily for the encounter cards.

I know that some prefer to break down encounter sets after every game, but I prefer to have more copies. To each their own.
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Tyler McKinnon
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I got a little OCD and put together a foam core insert for the cards (you have to make the walls high enough to stand the cards up because of that janky little box but it seems solid in the end) and so far have been able to put all the base and dunwich cycle decks into less than one row with little divider tabs so it's easy to sort. Two base sets worth of investigator/deck cards barely takes up any room on another row so I've either blessed or cursed myself with the ability to keep buying and storing cards. That said, I'd really debated a second core set and (despite being a cheap bastard) am super glad I went for it. I have loved the flexibility it gives me for trying different solo multi-fisted team combinations and the few times I can wrangle a four man groups it's great to be able to put together Team Super-team to go get pounded on by the baddies.
 
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John Jarvis
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Just ordered 2nd core

Now I can have 2 copies of dodge, .45 automatic, vicious blow etc yay !
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mathew rynich
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CortexBomb wrote:
I don't understand why the encounter set pre-builders have trouble understanding that many (most?) players have no desire to pre-build and that that is a phantom value for them. I have no problem if you do that, but I would never spend time doing that, it's of zero value to me. I'm sure it's the same for the numerous other people who see those extra cards as wasted. Saying that those aren't useful is every bit as valid as saying they are because it comes down to personal game prep preferences.


Well we keep bringing it up because it's a valid use for the redundant cards (that would otherwise just be garbage). It's a really great convenience. Especially to just have The Gathering prebuilt in the box to quickly set up a demo game for a new player is a cool bonus. Now with the advent of Return To The Night Of The Zealot you can throw one set in there and the other in your main storage solution for when scenarios need core set encounter cards.

Would I buy a second core set for this reason? No of course not, but the alternative is don't buy a second core set or just burn those cards in a fire or something. Might as well find utility for the things you have right?

The real reason you buy the second core set is to have enough tokens to play more than 2 players and to get a second copy of all the investigator cards. Almost all the core set investigator cards are still relevant and some so useful I'd have a hard time not including 2 all the time in my decks even now after two cycles of cards. In that way it's probably the most valuable purchase you can make right now to upgrade your investigator card pool.

OP I'd suggest you try and find it for cheaper. You don't "need" it really so you can wait and find a good deal. CSI has it for $34 USD, and you could always throw it into an existing cart to get you up to free shipping. I see it on Amazon right now for $31 USD. If you have prime shipping that's a pretty good price. Maybe the UK has some similar deals if you shop around.
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Michael Webb
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phillosmaster wrote:
Well we keep bringing it up because it's a valid use for the redundant cards (that would otherwise just be garbage). It's a really great convenience. Especially to just have The Gathering prebuilt in the box to quickly set up a demo game for a new player is a cool bonus. Now with the advent of Return To The Night Of The Zealot you can throw one set in there and the other in your main storage solution for when scenarios need core set encounter cards.

Would I buy a second core set for this reason? No of course not, but the alternative is don't buy a second core set or just burn those cards in a fire or something. Might as well find utility for the things you have right?

The real reason you buy the second core set is to have enough tokens to play more than 2 players and to get a second copy of all the investigator cards. Almost all the core set investigator cards are still relevant and some so useful I'd have a hard time not including 2 all the time in my decks even now after two cycles of cards. In that way it's probably the most valuable purchase you can make right now to upgrade your investigator card pool.


Again, yes, I understand it is possible that you and other people have found uses for them. For many of us, having stuff prebuilt is not worthwhile though. I keep all of my cards together. I only play one story arc at a time, and have no problem fishing out the needed cards as we set up. I would much rather spend my spare Arkham time debating minutia with people in the BGG forums than prebuilding decks

If anything, having a second Encounter set floating in my active boxes would make it more likely that I would have to sort through the stupid thing to make sure I didn't get extra copies of this or that mixed in somehow. For me, the second Encounter set is good for exactly one thing: replacing worn cards if I need to eventually as it will get the most wear and I do not sleeve my cards. That's well and good, but if the Encounter set was available separately I certainly wouldn't spend money on it, which is my barometer of whether it is worth taking into account when making the decision to buy / not buy additional Cores.

I think on this sort of micro, 2 Base level it's not that bad, really, as it is certainly possible to get Core boxes inexpensively in the States. It becomes a bit more annoying if you are the type of player who needs to supply 3+ players (i.e.: I would assume for your family, as supplying an adult gaming group to this level would be silly expensive) as then you are getting piles and piles of extra stuff when all you really need are the player cards and one set of extra tokens if you plan to play with 3+.

I don't think the alternative is to not buy, the alternative is to just accept the fact that a second set of some of the base cards ends up costing a bit more than I would like due to retail logistics. :shrug: I just find it a bit tiring trying to argue against people who say "Well, yes, you do really just want the player cards, but no, really, you DO want those extra Encounter cards, they really ARE useful" when my experience and that of many other players is that they aren't at all useful, they are just a necessary acquisition if you want the duplicates of the useful Core set player cards like Machete.

If you have found uses for them, or enjoy having them, fantastic, I'm glad you get more value out of them than I do. But that doesn't mean that my opinion and those who share my preferences aren't valid as well. OP seems to be more in the "these cards aren't going to be useful camp" so to me it makes sense to discuss his purchase from that perspective.
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Andrew Laws
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SuperJoeUK wrote:

Just ordered 2nd core

Now I can have 2 copies of dodge, .45 automatic, vicious blow etc yay !


I realise I'm way late to this but I ordered a second core after picking up everything through core to Carcosa, and honestly, I kind of feel a bit meh about it. The optimised investigator decks seem almost too good unless you're playing on hard, and the extra encounter cards are completely superfluous.

Over the course of campaigns, the investigator decks hit peak efficiency at around scenario 5-6, and then it's just smashing everything in your way.

I would counsel newer players to hold off, grab the scenario packs, and then if you still feel the investigator pool lacks options, go for a second core. I honestly don't feel as if having 2x Machete was all that big of a deal now the card pool has expanded.
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John Jarvis
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CortexBomb wrote:
OP seems to be more in the "these cards aren't going to be useful camp" so to me it makes sense to discuss his purchase from that perspective.


I am indeed sir !

I managed to pick up a core set cheap (in cash terms) due to discount codes, cheap initial price and having a few quid lying in paypal.

Happy with that, if I have a few cards I will not personally use, for what I paid... whatever !!

As you say they will be good for spares. You know for those moments when the game kicks you in the teeth, then the crotch, then the head, then the teeth again... And I throw them across the room in frustration..

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