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Wing Leader: Supremacy 1943-1945» Forums » News

Subject: Second Edition Wing Leader: Victories rss

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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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I highly recommend everyone read this:

http://www.insidegmt.com/?p=19064

And when you’ve read it, go here and start downloading the second edition materials, including nearly 200 Aircraft Data Cards!

http://www.airbattle.co.uk/w_downloads.html
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Stephen Harper
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Thanks for the article. A while back, the minute you mentioned that the 2nd ed. would be offered as a free download, that convinced me to go in and preorder the 2nd ed. upgrade kit from GMT. This article just cements that decision as the right one.
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Kaufschtick
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Oh cool. I just got into Wing Leader, and got lucky and found Wing Leader Victories at my FLAGS. So hopefully there's going to be an upgrade kit, sweet.

I got Supremacy too, and I'm waiting on the Blitz expansion to arrive in the mail any day now.

I have to say there is some super support from Mr. Wood on this game. thumbsup
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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Keep Calm and Carry On

You all have a bunch of options at this stage.

(1) Ignore all the second edition chat and continue to play the game with the current printed rules and data cards. This is an okay choice, particularly if you are enjoying Wing Leader as a casual pick-up game. There’s no need for you to look at 2e materials at all.

(2) It’s also okay just to download the stuff and cast an eye over it and do nothing more. Keep your powder dry until the hardcopy version appears.

(3) For some of you, and it might only be a handful of dedicated fans, it would be great if you embrace this stuff, download it, play it, test it, feed back. I have put this material out in public precisely to get the maximum number of eyes on this stuff before it is published. Any feedback that results in a fix or a tweak is worth its weight in gold to me.
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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Second Edition Feedback

I am in the market for all sorts of feedback on the second edition rules. If you have the time, I’d really love help with the following:

(a) Typos. We try and keep the game typo-free but for every five I fix I create a new one. So any proofing is welcome. Don’t forget, there are rules AND scenarios to look at. We sometimes pay lots of attention to the rules at the expense of the scenario book.

(b) Clarity. When people stumble on rules comprehension I never assume they are doing it wrong (unless it later becomes clear that they are). I assume that the rules are not communicating intent adequately and re-examine the text. I’d really appreciate fresh eyes on the rules to check them for clarity.

You’ll see a lot of blue text in the draft rules, some of which reflects my attempt to improve clarity rather than change rules. I’d like to continue this work right up to publication day, and I cannot do it without your help.

(c) Test rule changes. The back of the scenario book lists the actual rule changes from the v2.0 rules set. It’s not a huge list. Please test the changes. I want folks to, say, play dive-bombing scenarios and give their view on the dive-bomber air combat immunity. Do these changes work? Obviously, I’ve had the test team look at this stuff but I always need more feedback.

(d) Test scenarios. Thanks to the blue text you can see where scenarios have changed. We’ve done a lot of work on the victory conditions, but in a number of instances we have made bigger changes to scenarios. Please play the new rules and ADCs and give me feedback.

(e) ADC variant data. The back of the scenario book has a big list of all the Victories ADCs and their variants. Please check this over. Have I caught everything?

(f) Variant aircraft in scenarios. One of the changes to the scenario layout is that we now underline model names where an ADC variant is in play. (I should have done this a long time ago.) Is this correct across all scenarios?

(e) Index. I could do with someone to go over the rules index and check all the references. Help me identify, fix and update any issues.

I can offer nothing more than thanks and a credit as reward for your help. But this all goes to helping perfect the final product.
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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ADC Feedback

This is the bit that I approach with trepidation, because I recognise the passion amongst air gaming fans for aircraft. I myself have championed certain aeroplanes to other air game designers. I know a love of detail and of correctness is one of the obsessions that drives fans of this genre, just as there are obsessives who argue fiercely over tank armour or the minutiae of ships.

I’m an obsessive and I Know My People.

However, the big driver of the second edition is the desire to perfect the ADC rating system. I want to enforce consistency across the entire ecosystem of ADCs, which currently stands at somewhere shy of 200 cards. This won’t work unless I nail that consensus on the cards. Particularly as the unpublished stuff covers soooooo much ground, from Spain to Poland to China, the Netherlands and even a handful of bona fide Wunderwaffen. The ecosystem encompasses nearly all the aircraft we might ever want to publish—including extremes that run from shitty Roc fighters to post-war Vampire jets.

For my part, I drew all my notes on ADC creation from the several corners of my desktop into a central document. (This was another task I should have done long ago, dope that I am.) It distils some of the design philosophy of a very ungranular broad brush game system.

I am now making it available to you guys to look at. You can download it from my website here: http://www.airbattle.co.uk/w_downloads.html

Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made. Same goes for making ADCs. You will grasp how simple and crude the process is—where I cleave to data and where the arbitrary calls make their way in. I anticipate arguments. Possibly fights. Particularly over some aircraft.

However, if we are going to settle this stuff once and for all, we kinda need to duke it out in public. Look over this stuff. Make your case and bring your data. Champion your favourite aircraft.
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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This is the final word in this blast of Sunday-morning posts.

When it comes to reviewing the ADCs I know the focus will be on the stats. Arguments whether an aircraft is in such-and-such a speed band. Fights over the definition of Edge > and what qualifies. I’m hoping a constructive conversation will deep dive into the material and maybe the math. Particularly if nasty edge cases are uncovered.

However, I’d ask for folks not to forget aircraft variants. A not insubstantial part of the second edition process has involved expanding the variants on the backs of some ADCs. And also exploring where we need to expand into new cards to handle very early or late variants of some types. (For example, creating new unpublished ADCs to handle Spanish Civil war-vintage He 111 and Do 17 bombers.)
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Holman
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Thanks for all the information!

Is it expected that a 2nd-edition upgrade for WL:Supremacy will follow as well?
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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There's no certainty about that. That assumes the current run sells out and there's an opportunity for a reprint. If it doesn't happen it doesn't happen.
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Holman
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Thanks!

But what I meant to ask (and really should have asked) was this: are changes being made to Supremacy data as well?
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Lee Brimmicombe-Wood
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You can go to my website at the link below, download the Supremacy second edition data cards and see for yourself!

http://www.airbattle.co.uk/w_downloads.html
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Jordan Millikan
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pilotofficerprune wrote:
You can go to my website at the link below, download the Supremacy second edition data cards and see for yourself!

http://www.airbattle.co.uk/w_downloads.html


Thanks for sharing the updates - that’s an awesome gesture and I appreciate it.

I’ve P500’d the 2nd Ed Victories, but I see there are updates for Supremacy too. The 2nd Ed files on your site still say draft - will you announce when they are “final” 2nd edition? For Supremacy (sans 2nd ed upgrade kit) I plan to mark the original ADCs, but I don’t want to do so until you’re done making changes.

Thanks again! Great game.
 
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