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Subject: Advantage/Disadvantage rss

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James Callz
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How do i determine advantage/disadvantage? Can you explain the steps?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Do you mean how do you determine if you have Advantage or Disadvantage, or how do you decide which card to choose if you have Advantage or Disadvantage?

If it's the former:

You only have Advantage when an ability specifically says so or you have the Strengthened Condition. Some monsters have Advantage listed on their stat sheets. Some items grant Advantage.

You have Disadvantage when your perform a Ranged attack on an adjacent enemy. You have Disadvantage when you have the Muddled Condition. Otherwise, if any ability says you have Disadvantage, then you have it.

If your question is the latter, there are three cases:

1. Two non-rolling modifier cards are drawn
- 1a. With Advantage, you take the better* card.
- 1d. With Disadvantage, you take the worse* card.
2. One non-rolling modifier and one rolling modifier card are drawn
- 2a. With Advantage, you take both cards.
- 2d. With Disadvantage, you take the non-rolling modifier
3. Two rolling modifier cards are drawn - keep drawing until you get a non-rolling modifier
- 3a. With Advantage, you apply all of the drawn cards
- 3d. With Disadvantage, you apply only the non-rolling modifier

*Better and worse are determined numerically, but all added effects are considered positive but undefined. If there is ambiguity as to which is better, take the first card
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kornetmuse kornetmuse
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To be more specific with Darren's last sentence.

Ambiguity is not defined by YOU.

Each added effect are represented by a viarable (x, y , z...) with positive and undefined value.

So if you can't resolved the equation then it is ambiguous.

Exemple :

Stun = x
Muddle = y

0 + x vs 1 is ambiguous (even if you prefer to stun the ennemy than doing one dammage).

0 + x > 0 --> not ambiguous because X > 0 so 0 + x is the better.

10000 + x vs -10000 + y is ambiguous so you don't decide.
 
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Des T.
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And piling on the infodump:

The Advantage calculation never considers anything beyond straight damage numbers. is always calculated solely by the numbers on the cards.
"x2" is calculated as the numerical value of the attack, before applying the modifier.
So if you attack a poisoned target with an attack 1 advantage and
you flip over +2 and x2,
it's considered +2 and +1.
You would take the +2.


Edit:
Fixed the example to what I was trying to explain: x2 isn't automatically considered the "better" card. Apologies for the bad wording.
 
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kornetmuse kornetmuse
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
And piling on the infodump:

Advantage is always calculated solely by the numbers on the cards. "x2" is calculated as the numerical value of the attack.
So if you attack a poisoned target with an attack 1 advantage and
you flip over +2 and x2,
it's considered +2 and +1.
You would take the +2, even though there's technically no difference.


Hummmm, are you sure that you take the poison dammage into consideration when applying a x2 modifier card ?

I mean without advantage, if I attack 1 on a poisoned target. For me the total amount of dammage dealt is 3 not 4 Oo.

Have you got some quote that would say that the x2 is applied to the poison damage too ?
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
even though there's technically no difference.

I dont think is quite right.

1 + 2 = 3
1 X 2 = 2

The +2 is better.
 
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James J
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Xaqery wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
even though there's technically no difference.

I dont think is quite right.

1 + 2 = 3
1 X 2 = 2

The +2 is better.


He said Attack 1 with Poison.
 
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James J
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kornetmuse wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
And piling on the infodump:

Advantage is always calculated solely by the numbers on the cards. "x2" is calculated as the numerical value of the attack.
So if you attack a poisoned target with an attack 1 advantage and
you flip over +2 and x2,
it's considered +2 and +1.
You would take the +2, even though there's technically no difference.


Hummmm, are you sure that you take the poison dammage into consideration when applying a x2 modifier card ?

I mean without advantage, if I attack 1 on a poisoned target. For me the total amount of dammage dealt is 3 not 4 Oo.

Have you got some quote that would say that the x2 is applied to the poison damage too ?


Rules pg. 20 wrote:
When attacking, the base attack value written on the card can be modified by three types of values in the
following order. Repeat these steps for each individual enemy targeted by the attack:
• An attacker’s attack modifiers are applied first. These modifiers include bonuses and penalties from
active ability cards, items, and other sources (e.g., +1 Attack from POISON).
• Next, an attack modifier card is drawn from the attacker’s attack modifier deck and applied.


Emphasis mine. The +1 damage from poison is applied before the Attack modifier card.
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kornetmuse kornetmuse
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Jjdelanoche wrote:

Rules pg. 20 wrote:
When attacking, the base attack value written on the card can be modified by three types of values in the
following order. Repeat these steps for each individual enemy targeted by the attack:
• An attacker’s attack modifiers are applied first. These modifiers include bonuses and penalties from
active ability cards, items, and other sources (e.g., +1 Attack from POISON).
• Next, an attack modifier card is drawn from the attacker’s attack modifier deck and applied.


Emphasis mine. The +1 damage from poison is applied before the Attack modifier card.


ok never seen this thx.
 
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Jay Johnson
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When comparing AttMod cards for Advantage or Disadvantage,
I calculate out the damage for each card as it would be calculated if that card came up in a regular attack. This factors in the base attack, any ability modifiers, poison, and item effects that affect damage (including the iron helmet if applicable). If the AttMod cards drawn are free from non-damage effects (see below), then the card to choose becomes quite apparent.

Non-damage effects (status/conditions, elemental infusions, refresh, add target, etc.) add a "positive but undefined) value, just like the rules state, no matter what the particular effect is. So they often lead to ambiguity (and selecting the first card drawn).

This logic follows the rulebook itself, and is fairly simple. It may contradict some of the "rulings" or the FAQ, which all gets quite complicated on this matter. So frankly, I'll stick to the straight forward.

(and I also follow the rulebook as written when it comes to rolling mods)
 
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Robert Stewart
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JayJ79 wrote:
When comparing AttMod cards for Advantage or Disadvantage,
I calculate out the damage for each card as it would be calculated if that card came up in a regular attack. This factors in the base attack, any ability modifiers, poison, and item effects that affect damage (including the iron helmet if applicable). If the AttMod cards drawn are free from non-damage effects (see below), then the card to choose becomes quite apparent.

Non-damage effects (status/conditions, elemental infusions, refresh, add target, etc.) add a "positive but undefined) value, just like the rules state, no matter what the particular effect is. So they often lead to ambiguity (and selecting the first card drawn).

This logic follows the rulebook itself, and is fairly simple. It may contradict some of the "rulings" or the FAQ, which all gets quite complicated on this matter. So frankly, I'll stick to the straight forward.

(and I also follow the rulebook as written when it comes to rolling mods)


That sounds pretty close to the FAQ version. The only difference is that, according to the rulebook (top of page 20) you apply defensive effects (eg Shield) after the attack modifier.

So the official procedure for dealing with advantage/disadvantage:

1) Calculate the attack damage based on the base attack plus any bonuses to the attack (eg Poison).

2) draw 2 attack modifiers and decide which is better/worse according to the following:
a) Treat x2 as +D where D is the damage calculated in step 1
b) A modifier with any added effect is better than a lower modifier with the same or no added effect
c) A modifier with any added effect is better than the same modifier with no added effect
d) A modifier with any added effect can't be compared with a higher modifier unless it has the same added effect
e) Two different added effects can't be compared
f) A modifier with no added effect is better than a lower modifier with no added effect and worse than any higher modifier.

2.5) Apply the better/worse modifier as appropriate (or the first drawn if they can't be compared)

3) Apply defensive bonuses


Another way of breaking it down:

For advantage, take the first card unless:
a) It's purely numerical (counting x2 as +D as above) and the second card is either a higher number or the same number with any added effect
b) It has any added effect and the second card has the exact same added effect(s) and a higher numerical value

For disadvantage, take the first card unless:
a) It's purely numerical and the second card is a lower number with no added effect
b) It has any added effect and the second card either is purely numerical with the same or lower value, or has the exact same added effect(s) and a lower numerical value


If either card drawn is a rolling modifier, ignore all the above, and keep drawing until you've got exactly one non-rolling card, and use that, applying all drawn rolling modifiers if you have advantage.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I still wonder if any of us actually answered the OP's question.
 
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Jay Johnson
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Dexter345 wrote:
I still wonder if any of us actually answered the OP's question.

perhaps they were wondering how to determine whether an attack is considered advantaged or disadvantaged in the first place.
 
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Des T.
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Yeah, my example was bad. Sorry.

I was trying to find a case where x2 isn't automatically better. As soon as I've figured one out, I'll edit it in.

Edit: It should be all correct now.

 
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