Roy Subs
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
p.34 Advance Politics "Every time an Army containing units of that Nation is attacked (each battle counts as one attack regardless of the number of rounds fought). Also, remember that when a Nation’s"

Scenario A: Shadow attacks Dale, and they play Scouts and move into Woodland Realm. 1 North unit + 1 North Leader are now in Woodland Realm. Next die, the Free player moves the North unit out of Woodland Realm, leaving the North Leader in Woodland Realm. If Shadow attacks Woodland Realm, will North politics advance, with only a North Leader (non-unit) in there?

p.26 "ARMY COMPOSITION: All friendly Army units, Leaders and Characters inside a single region form an Army."
i.e. a Leader is not a "unit".

Scenario B: A Nazgul (Sauron not 'At War') moves into a Southron & Easterlings (which is 'At War') Army that is in West Harondor. A large Gondor force in Pelargir attacks the West Harondor Army. Would Sauron advance on politics from this even though no Sauron unit was involved in the battle (though a Nazgul was)?

Raf pointed out that Scenario B is not relevant as the rules clearly state that Nazgul are always considered to be 'At War'.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I believe Page 8, Game Components, is the best place to look for an answer.

d10-1 On page 8 the word "Unit" is only ever used to talk about Army Units, specifically, Regulars and Elites.

Quote:
Armies

The bulk of the armed forces of a Nation are represented by Army units.

The Army units of a Nation are further divided into either Regular or Elite units, where the first category represents a fighting force of average warriors and the second a host of chosen fighters or powerful monsters.

A single Army unit corresponds to a variable number of warriors, from a few hundred expert fighters to thousands of Orcs. In game terms, all units of a kind (Regular or Elite) have the same fighting capabilities as any other of the same kind, regardless of the Nation they belong to.

All Army units inside a single region and controlled by the same player are considered a single group and are collectively called an Army.

An Army can be composed of a maximum of ten units, or five units if the Army is inside a Stronghold under siege.




d10-2 In addition, the words "Army Unit" and "Unit" seem to be used interchangeably in that context. This would make it seem that "Army Unit" and "Unit" are synonymous for game purposes.



d10-3 Always on page 8:

Quote:
Free Peoples Leaders

[...]

Free Peoples Leaders, regardless of nationality, can lead Armies composed of units from any Free Peoples Nation.

A Leader is not considered an Army unit and cannot be taken as a casualty, nor does the presence of a Leader add to the Combat Strength of an Army (see page 28).




d10-4 Again on page 8:

Quote:
Nazgûl

The Nazgûl, also called Ringwraiths, act as Leaders for the Shadow Armies and each is represented by the distinctive Ringwraith figure mounted on a winged beast.

The rules pertaining to the Free Peoples Leaders also apply to the Nazgûl, with the following exceptions:

[Nothing relevant]




d10-5 Finally, if you search for the combination of words "units and leaders" and "units or leaders", you will find that leaders are always talked about as something different from units.



thumbsdown Therefore, I would say that Leaders (including Nazgûls) inside attacked Armies do not cause their nation's politics track to be advanced. thumbsdown
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
neko flying
Germany
Berlin
Berlin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The rationale might be: An individual Elf Leader going to lead a Gondorian Army is like an individual European jihadi leaving to fight in Syria, or an individual British Anarchist going to fight in the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s, or an individual American enrolling in the French Foreign Legion.

Individuals getting into trouble in foreign conflicts are not likely to affect their original Nation's politics much, if any.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric C

New York
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
It is my understanding that if the elves are not at war you would not be able to place an elf leader from a muster in gondor. is that correct?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric C

New York
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
But how that leader get into that nation not at war unless they retreated in?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roy Subs
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep Eric, it is not possible to muster an elf leader to Gondor. The example above is when Dale retreats into Woodland Realm after an attack.

Also note that the elves have no leaders that can be mustered. All elf leaders are in play at start of game.

The OP examples are rare, but I have seen them happen in a few games. I guess Leaders don't affect politics on their own by this. One of those situations that will be played slightly wrongly at times I guess...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Genestealer Patriarch
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ecirelli wrote:
But how that leader get into that nation not at war unless they retreated in?

They can't. Retreating is the only way leaders from non-belligerent nations can be placed inside another nation. Although leaders aren't units, they are specifically included in all the restrictions described in "Entering War" on P36.

Ecirelli wrote:
It is my understanding that if the elves are not at war you would not be able to place an elf leader from a muster in gondor. is that correct?

Regardless of being At War or not, you can't recruit Units or Leaders of one nation in the settlements of another nation. Elves can't be mustered in Gondor, Dwarves can't be mustered in Rohan and so on. They can move to those places (if their nation is At War, or the army is retreating), but they can't enter the game there.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raf B
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just to pile on, Nazgul are considered to always be At War, so I wouldn't expect to tie the Sauron nation's disposition on the Political Track to their fate.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roy Subs
Scotland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
yep, good point, the Nazgul example is not relevant to this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.