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The World of SMOG: Rise of Moloch» Forums » Rules

Subject: Fire tokens rss

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Universal Head
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Another ambuiguity. When fire tokens spread, do you simply count up the number of new fire tokens and place them all adjacent to any existing fire tokens, or does each new fire token have to be placed next to one existing fire token? It could be read either way.

The former seems more likely, though it gives the Nemesis much more control over how the fire spreads.
 
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Abraham Quicksilver
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Damn, I thought it was the latter. In the police station you start with two and when you add two more there are only two squares they can go on. I think on the next go, there are still only two squares it can spread too.

In other words, I've played it like Fire Rescue

To me, it feels wrong that fire can spread to places it doesn't touch. So I say one new fire has to be adjacent to one existing fire. If there is no possible adjacent square then nothing is placed.
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Universal Head
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The new fire still has to be adjacent to exiting fire, I'm just asking if each existing token spreads one token.

So, for example, you could place three tokens adjacent to one existing token, or does each one have to be adjacent to one existing token.

Whew!
 
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Josh Worley
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UniversalHead wrote:
Another ambuiguity. When fire tokens spread, do you simply count up the number of new fire tokens and place them all adjacent to any existing fire tokens, or does each new fire token have to be placed next to one existing fire token? It could be read either way.

The former seems more likely, though it gives the Nemesis much more control over how the fire spreads.


The rules are pretty clear regarding fire...

Quote:
During the Wrap-Up Phase, any Fire
tokens in an Outdoor Square are removed
(perpetual rain does that), while Fire
tokens inside a building will begin to
spread: the Nemesis will place 1 additional
Fire token in a square adjacent to an
existing Fire token for each Fire Token
in that building. If, therefore, during the
first Wrap-Up Phase, 1 Fire token is inside
a building, the Nemesis player will place 1
additional token. During the next Wrap-
Up Phase, they will place 2 more (for a total
of 4 now), since there were now 2 tokens
there at the start of the phase. Note that the
Nemesis must place these tokens adjacent
to Fires that were there at the start of the
Phase. They may not string new Fire tokens
together during the same phase.
Fire can spread through Doors and break
them (remove from the Stage). Fire can
spread through Windows but cannot
spread through Walls or Red Lines.


UniversalHead wrote:
The new fire still has to be adjacent to exiting fire, I'm just asking if each existing token spreads one token.

So, for example, you could place three tokens adjacent to one existing token, or does each one have to be adjacent to one existing token.

Whew!


If you had three tokens in one building already and were placing three more during the Wrap-Up Phase, you could do it either way. You could place all three adjacent to a single fire token (if there was space around it) or place each new fire token adjacent to a different token in different areas of the building.
 
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Universal Head
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Quote:
the Nemesis will place 1 additional Fire token in a square adjacent to an existing Fire token for each Fire Token in that building.


Yes, the phrase is pretty clear, and we're playing it the way you mention. But is it saying each token should be placed next to each existing fire token, or they can be placed next to any existing fire token? It could be read either way and there's nothing to absolutely clarify it.

I'm not a rules lawyer, I play for fun, but I do object to poorly written rules which could stuff up the scenarios. When you write game rules, there should be zero room for interpretation. The fact that someone else has already replied saying they interpreted it the other way confirms that this isn't the case here.
 
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Josh Worley
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It says an existing adjacent fire token. I interpret that as any fire token.
 
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Anthony Ragonnet
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Well, it seems very clear to me with this precision in the rules :

"Note that the Nemesis must place these tokens adjacent to Fires that were there at the start of the Phase. They may not string new Fire tokens together during the same phase."
 
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Universal Head
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That statement doesn't affect the ambiguity I'm talking about at all. It could apply to both circumstances.
 
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Pietro Pomella
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UniversalHead wrote:
The new fire still has to be adjacent to exiting fire, I'm just asking if each existing token spreads one token.

So, for example, you could place three tokens adjacent to one existing token, or does each one have to be adjacent to one existing token.

Whew!


I assume you mean that each has to be adjacent to a different existing token, right? Otherwise I don't understand your question, as your two sentences sound identical to me (not a native speaker, sorry).
 
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Christophe Van Rossom
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Some random interrogation here about the fire expansion rule : could the nemesis player put fire token diagonally (adjacent means that in a general acception in this game) or only in an orthogonal progression?

Thank you for your answers, gentlemen!
 
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John Tenzer
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(No, it is not explicitly written in the rules, but...)

You can move and attack diagonally, so why shouldn't fire be able to spread that way, too?
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M M
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Pietro Pomella wrote:
UniversalHead wrote:
The new fire still has to be adjacent to exiting fire, I'm just asking if each existing token spreads one token.

So, for example, you could place three tokens adjacent to one existing token, or does each one have to be adjacent to one existing token.

Whew!

I assume you mean that each has to be adjacent to a different existing token, right? Otherwise I don't understand your question, as your two sentences sound identical to me (not a native speaker, sorry).

Yes.

I believe his question is if you have fires that look like


F - - - F - - F

Do you need to place New fires that look like

FN - - - NF - - FN

Or could they look like

N
FN - - - F - - F
N

In short, must each existing fire location spread 1 fire. Or may 1 or more fire locations spread fires equal, in total, to the number of existing fires.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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UniversalHead wrote:
...or does each new fire token have to be placed next to one existing fire token? It could be read either way.

We discussed this when it came up and ruled that each existing token got one adjacent to it, or none at all. It seemed intuitive that each token spreads its own fire next to itself, not chained out adjacent to some other token.

For example, if fire existed in a 3 x 3 grid so that the center token was completely surrounded, that center token would not spread fire. And that worked for us thematically as only the front line of the fire would spread.

We read Page 16 like this:
"...place 1 additional
Fire Token in a square adjacent to an
existing Fire Token"

...and do that to

"...each Fire Token in
that building."

The text is definitely ambiguous, but we had to pick a direction and that seemed the most intuitive.

 
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Jon Darlington
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Just to help illustrate this clearly, the question is whether the following is a legal way to spread fire. Can a single square "spawn" new fire tokens that are "earned" by other spaces?

I agree, it's not clear from the rules whether the spreading example below is legal, or not. It conforms to the letter of the rules, but it's not clear whether this is the intention.



 
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Josh Worley
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I've been playing that chaining of fire tokens is not the intention of the rules as written... So each token itself must have a new fire token adjacent to it.
 
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Ronaldo Fatecha
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swirlsaepi wrote:
I've been playing that chaining of fire tokens is not the intention of the rules as written... So each token itself must have a new fire token adjacent to it.


Agreed. I can see the argument for both sides, but I feel that allowing fire to expand from a central point would be similar to use an area attack with the fire icon, but for free and every turn.
 
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Christophe Van Rossom
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Thank you, John!

I totally agree with your clever "ambiguous" answer, because of course, nothing in the rules is explicitly saying that fire only spreads orthogonal, whilst all other rules are defining adjacent as the 8 potentially open squares around the one afire.
 
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