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Sidereal Confluence: Trading and Negotiation in the Elysian Quadrant» Forums » Variants

Subject: 2P Variant? rss

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RyuSora
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Yeah, i know this is a trading and negoation game so to think about a 2p variant is pretty silly, but one must ask, is there anyone that tried a 2p variant of this?

I do not own the game and i think the game looks pretty interesting, but i must consider i mostly play 2p, and the engine of points simply sounds extremely interesting to me.
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Franz Derphausen
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I could work if each player plays at least two alien factions. You need at least 4 factions to have a decent galactic economy, i.e. enough supply of various cubes in order to meet the demands of converters and - more importantly - those of the science teams.
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Mark Jackson
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You could do it playing two factions each and just playing to maximize your total score, since it would be hard to play competitively as you could just dump resources into one of your two factions. I think it would be quite hard to play two factions though, as the game is already basically "Information Overload: The Game" playing with one faction.
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Jacob Davenport
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We have discussed two types of two player games.

The first is the cooperative variant, which I posted here and which I have only played once. It was fun, and should work for two. I'd consider playing at least three species with that variant, but I bet it would work anyway with just two. If you play it, please let us know if it was fun.

The second requires a bunch of trading cards, which I have not yet created, where each card offers various deals which the players may accept or ignore. For example, on turn 2 of the game you'd draw seven of these cards, and one says "Offer three white cubes for two blue cubes." You'd take turns claiming these trading cards and making the offered deals with the bank. Any trading cards that neither player wants to do would be discarded.

This deck of trading cards simulates other players, and you would probably draw more cards for later rounds than for earlier ones. I haven't played with these, but it should work to make a two player game effective. If you're really interested, I can make up the cards and you can print them and let me know if they make the game fun.
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Brian Busha
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Um... let me throw my hat in the ring for 2p testing/what have you. I am a primarily 2p player and my wife greatly enjoys this game, if there are variants to help this work, I am so there.

The cards has such a cool mechanic because they could be ported to the 3p game as well to help facilitate lack of trades. Interesting concept, I'm going to look up the co-op variant now.
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Becq Starforged
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I can't say that I've thought of Sidereal as remotely playable for two players ... but Jacob's 'trading card' deck just might work. I don't think it would be the same game, but it could be a fun head-to-head variant!
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Zack Stackurski
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Trading games with only 2 are typically hard to do. I like that trading card variant, but it seems like you'd be better served finding an engine of points game designed to handle 2 players.

That being said if you don't want to wait for those trading cards to be developed, I could see each player playing two species working with the limitation that the two species one player owns may not directly trade with each other. This means if you really want your Bug-Guys to get green cubes from your Bird-People you first need to trade them to you opponent's Lizard-Men and convince them to give them back through another trade. Keeping trade at the fore front is important as that's what sets this game apart from other cube conversion games out there.
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Jacob Davenport
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Well, I had this card idea as a solo game solution as well, so let me try something out and then present it to you for further testing.
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Jacob Davenport
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OK, try this and let me know if it's fun.

Open up Trading Simulator on a phone or tablet. Pick the species you have in play (I advise against Zeth and Yengii, they don't work well with only one other player). Start the game.

The program will simulate all the other players, who come to you proposing fair trades. If you take a deal, they will learn that you want more of that resource. If you reject a deal because you aren't interested in what you're being offered, they will learn to offer that less often. And if you reject a deal because you don't have what they are asking for, they will learn to not request that resource very much.

As you accept or reject deals, the program will record how much trading has happened, and after a while the deals will become less and less fair, and it will warn you that the other players are soon done with fair trades. Once both players have told the program that they are done trading, the game goes to the next round.

This seemed to work for my initial test for two players. Heck, it would work for one player if you set yourself a point count target and did something clever for simulating bidding. Or you could use this for a cooperative game, using my cooperative rules.

But I have a few concerns:
• The game is fun because players can make any trade they can think of. The program does not simulate trading cards or futures.
• Technically, the two players should never trade with each other. Either the trade is completely fair, which means neither gets ahead of the other, or one player gains a small advantage. In a normal game, if A and B trade with each other and A gains a minor advantage, it doesn't matter too much because both A and B gained an advantage over C and D and E.
• With two players, I recommend using the tracks for three players, and always discarding inventions and colonies not won in bidding.

You could also have this program be the stand-in for other species when playing a three player game, but I think you'd lose the really tight negotiations which happen in a three player game.

If you do try it out, let me know how it goes.
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Joe McSteve
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Thanks for posting this, Jacob, but not sure if the code is working right. The simulator keeps putting in the Zeth and Unity when I haven't selected them. Regardless, this is really cool, and now I'm going to be wasting a whole lot of time on this website.
 
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Jacob Davenport
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Hm, let's see what I've done wrong. This is my test:

On the first page, pick the Faderan and the Eni Et, then "Start Playing".
The next page shows, randomly, the Eni Et being offered a trade by the Kjas. I accept this trade.
Next, the Eni Et are offered a trade by the Unity. I'm not interested.
Next, the Faderan are offered a trade by the Caylion. I accept.

So, it's working for me as expected. My two actual players are using the Eni Et and the Faderan, and the computer is simulating trade offers from the other seven species.

Is that not what you're seeing?
 
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Joe McSteve
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Continental Drift wrote:
Hm, let's see what I've done wrong. This is my test:

On the first page, pick the Faderan and the Eni Et, then "Start Playing".
The next page shows, randomly, the Eni Et being offered a trade by the Kjas. I accept this trade.
Next, the Eni Et are offered a trade by the Unity. I'm not interested.
Next, the Faderan are offered a trade by the Caylion. I accept.

So, it's working for me as expected. My two actual players are using the Eni Et and the Faderan, and the computer is simulating trade offers from the other seven species.

Is that not what you're seeing?


Ah, yes, that is correct. Ok, so in this simulator, is it always a 9-player game, and you are selecting only the races that you will control? I guess I got tripped up by the sentence "Which Species Are Playing?" which I take to mean "who is in the game?", but which actually means, "who are you controlling in this 9-player game?".

Am I correct about that?
 
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Jacob Davenport
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Right, I should make that more clear.
 
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So it goes.
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Would it be possible to get a copy of the source code? I'd love to monkey around with it.

 
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