Alexander Alekhine
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
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“A coach may call both timeouts at once” (p 13).
Why would you want/need to do that other than to protect yourself from forgetting to call the second one, thereby accidentally running out the clock?
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Roger Bartels
United States
Spring
Texas
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I think you nailed it. You can't call a timeout with out a yellow cube being left. Calling both while there is still a yellow cube left for the half ensures that you will get both called before the end of the half.
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Karl Hiesterman
United States
Aurora
Colorado
I wish to kill you, be at rest as to that, but to kill you quietly in a snug, remote place, where you will not be able to boast of your death to anybody
Caught trouser-free in open country...
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There must be a yellow cube remaining in this hall's pool in order to place a red time out cube. And all the yellow cubes will be placed on the clock before you place any red cubes.
So, say your opponent just scored and there is one cube left in the pool. You want to have enough downs so you can score before the end of the half. If you could only place one time out cube in the pool, the first play you run would use the remaining yellow cube. Now the pool only has your red cube, and you would not be able to put another red cube in.
So when you have that one remaining yellow cube you have to ask yourself "do I need 2 downs to score, or 3?".
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Tony
United States
Mount Prospect
Illinois
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p. 13
"A timeout may only be called if:
There is at least one time/timeout cube in the current half pile
The ball is not currently in play."
There does not need to be a yellow time cube left to call a timeout, any cube will do.
So there's no inherent reason to call both at once, but you can if you want too.
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Roger Bartels
United States
Spring
Texas
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VeganGuy wrote: p. 13
"A timeout may only be called if:
There is at least one time/timeout cube in the current half pile
The ball is not currently in play."
There does not need to be a yellow time cube left to call a timeout, any cube will do.
So there's no inherent reason to call both at once, but you can if you want too.
Ah, thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding. But there is a reason to call two at once. If you plan on running or think you might run the ball (or get sacked), and there is only one yellow cube left in the pile, you must call two timeouts at once if you plan to use both successively. If you don't, the run play will burn the yellow cube and beginning the next play will burn the first timeout cube. Now you have no cubes left and cannot call your second timeout according to the rule cited above....or am I not understanding the time-keeping rules?
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Jason "J.T." Taylor
United States
North Highlands
California
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Lemonpips wrote: VeganGuy wrote: p. 13
"A timeout may only be called if:
There is at least one time/timeout cube in the current half pile
The ball is not currently in play."
There does not need to be a yellow time cube left to call a timeout, any cube will do.
So there's no inherent reason to call both at once, but you can if you want too. Ah, thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding. But there is a reason to call two at once. If you plan on running or think you might run the ball (or get sacked), and there is only one yellow cube left in the pile, you must call two timeouts at once if you plan to use both successively. If you don't, the run play will burn the yellow cube and beginning the next play will burn the first timeout cube.
This!
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Tony
United States
Mount Prospect
Illinois
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I’m not sure how your example changes what I’m saying.
1 yellow cube in time pile.
You add a timeout cube because it’s not 4th down and might need an extra play.
Now there is 1 yellow time cube and 1 red time cube in time pile.
Execute play; no matter out come 1 yellow cube is used.
Now there is 1 red timeout cube in the time pile. Anytime before the next play another red timeout cube can be added.
There nothing stopping you from adding two timeouts right away, but nothing forcing you either.
FYI, each red time out cube is a single play, do not treat them like yellow time cubes.
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Roger Bartels
United States
Spring
Texas
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VeganGuy wrote: I’m not sure how your example changes what I’m saying.
1 yellow cube in time pile.
You add a timeout cube because it’s not 4th down and might need an extra play.
Now there is 1 yellow time cube and 1 red time cube in time pile.
Execute play; no matter out come 1 yellow cube is used.
Now there is 1 red timeout cube in the time pile. Anytime before the next play another red timeout cube can be added.
There nothing stopping you from adding two timeouts right away, but nothing forcing you either.
FYI, each red time out cube is a single play, do not treat them like yellow time cubes.
I have no idea why it is even mentioned in the rules that you can call both timeouts at once then. Why would you ever need to do it? If there is never a need, and it provides absolutely no benefit, then why is it in the rules?
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Tony
United States
Mount Prospect
Illinois
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^
For completeness. If you tend to forget things it might be best to call them both.
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Roger Bartels
United States
Spring
Texas
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VeganGuy wrote: ^
For completeness. If you tend to forget things it might be best to call them both.
I find that ridiculous and completely unnecessary.
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Steve Malczak
United States
Fairfax
Virginia
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At a guess, it's because calling two time outs at once is against NFL rules (ie, it's an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to call consecutive time outs...ask Joe Gibbs
 ).
So since it's against standard football rules, but permissible in TechnoBowl, I imagine that's why he felt the need to specifically call it out.
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Barry Miller
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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Lemonpips wrote: VeganGuy wrote: ^
For completeness. If you tend to forget things it might be best to call them both. I find that ridiculous and completely unnecessary.
Then call me ridiculous, as I love completeness and thrive clarity in rulebooks! Because I guarantee you.. if not me, then someone else would ask, "Hey can you call both timeouts at the same time?"
The fact that this question is preemptively answered in the rulebook is an example of the sort of thoughtful thoroughness that I look for in rulebooks.
Now, when asking if you can call both timeouts at once, the natural reaction would be, "Why would you want to?".
But trust me! ... there are ALWAYS edge cases to just about any rule, and although I personally (or anyone else in this thread) may not have thought of a reason to call both at once, I guarantee you again that someone will!
And for that person, the rulebook answers the question. I love it.
Plus, I bet it came up during playtesting, which is how most seemingly odd questions make it into most rulebooks anyway!
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Roger Bartels
United States
Spring
Texas
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bgm1961 wrote: Lemonpips wrote: VeganGuy wrote: ^
For completeness. If you tend to forget things it might be best to call them both. I find that ridiculous and completely unnecessary. Then call me ridiculous, as I love completeness and thrive clarity in rulebooks! Because I guarantee you.. if not me, then someone else would ask, " Hey can you call both timeouts at the same time?" The fact that this question is preemptively answered in the rulebook is an example of the sort of thoughtful thoroughness that I look for in rulebooks. Now, when asking if you can call both timeouts at once, the natural reaction would be, " Why would you want to?". But trust me! ... there are ALWAYS edge cases to just about any rule, and although I personally (or anyone else in this thread) may not have thought of a reason to call both at once, I guarantee you again that someone will! And for that person, the rulebook answers the question. I love it. Plus, I bet it came up during playtesting, which is how most seemingly odd questions make it into most rulebooks anyway!
There is a point at which completeness introduces confusion when a fuss is made over something that did not require a fuss in the first place. Of course, I wasn't around during playtesting, but I find it hard to understand how someone would forget about calling timeouts. The game assumes a certain knowledge of American football already. To mention, "don't forget to use your timeouts" in the way that the rules do (i.e., "you can call both timeouts at once") made me stutter in my understanding of how time is kept......but, as you said, I guess Brent had his reasoning.
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Barry Miller
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
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Lemonpips wrote: ...but I find it hard to understand how someone would forget about calling timeouts. The game assumes a certain knowledge of American football already. To mention, "don't forget to use your timeouts" in the way that the rules do...
I thought Tony was only being facetious when he wrote, "If you tend to forget things it might be best to call them both." Thus I assumed you were commenting only about the need for that level of "completeness" in the rulebook. And so that's what I responded to! (Ah, text messaging.. nothing beats it for making sure that nothing's misunderstood, eh)?
Anyway, I doubt that Brent included that clarification in the rules only for cases where players might forget, as that would be ridiculous and unnecessary!
Instead, I think that calling both timeouts at once probably was a question which came up during playtetsing, and was likely based on some strategy or tactic that us in this thread haven't thought of yet. Remember that he's got playtesters who've played this game for hundreds of hours and have devised twists, "gamey" moves, and tactics that we haven't even thought of yet!
So just because we can't think of a reason to call both timeouts at once, I suspect that some smart gamer has, and is why Brent included it in the rulebook.
At any rate, I doubt it has anything to do with being forgetful!
And one more thing... if fear of forgetting is your only reason for throwing both red cubes in at once, then that's a bad mistake depending on the score! Because of course you're also giving your opponent more time to add to his score before the game ends! (Remember, each red cube is an entire play - pass or run)!
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