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Lock 'n Load Tactical: Heroes of the Pacific» Forums » General

Subject: My first foray into war gaming rss

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chris penoyer
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so i got this game as a gift from someone who knows i love board games and with some interest in WWII.

any suggestions on how to go about learning this monster? the 60 page encyclopedic rulebook is a bit daunting, though the game seems to be mostly about modifiers... and the modifiers within the modifiers wow

dive in and reference as you go?




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Norman Smith
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I'm not in front of my module right now, but as a completely new wargamer, you will find your learning curve steep, but very rewarding, because once you have this system cracked, there is a ton of stuff in this series and of course many principles in wargames are similar, so you will be able to dip into many things without the same sense of being over-whelmed.

So, here is a 'journey' that I think will help you.

Firstly, there is a lot of YouTube play throughs, have a look at some of them and they will give you the flow of play and some insight into the system.

Ignore the module scenario book and special rules for now.

read the Core Rules manual, you only need to go to page 32 ... ending with leaders in section 11. Maybe do that a couple of time. You will find that although the rules seem like a large volume, they are very readable and make sense as you read through them, so they are not hard, it is just a lot to remember, which of course eventually becomes second nature.

Just put 3 squads and 1 leader on the map for each side and play through an action several times until those mechanics are second nature. then give each side a light machine gun and run your game again.

You can then learn the passage on Heroes (follows leaders), go to the scenario book and look at those module rules and then choose a scenario that is infantry only - there is quite a good starter scenario in there, but I can't remember its name.

the game plays fine solo, there is a solo module, but you do not need to consider that yet, I think to be able to assimilate the solo module properly as a new wargamer, you need an actual grounding in the base system. As impulses flip back and forth, just do what you think is right for those units you are immediately dealing with.

The point about these sort of games is that all your initial investment in system learning is rewarded many times by then being able to play such a wide variety of scenarios.

Finally, whilst we have all stood in your shoes, approaching this game for the first time, many of us will have had the advantage of playing previous wargames, though not all. You will find a lot of support here if you have questions that just won't settle in your head.
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chris penoyer
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Awesome. Thanks a lot. I will do just that!

I will post questions here when I get stuck/confused on something.
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Martin Gallo
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I also recommend that you try and find someone who has at least played a wargame before. Learning with a friend is the best; learning with a stranger who shares your interests is a great way to make new friends.

Also, there is a demo version with a shorter ruleset - You can buy the print and play version or the printed version. Might be shallower learning curve.

Welcome to the club. We are mostly friendly, though there are those few who bite. Very rewarding hobby, but it takes time to learn.
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chris penoyer
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Appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone else who plays war games. Message boards like this and youtube will be my primary resource for help/clarification and that's fine. While this is my first wargame experience, it's not my first rule-intensive game. Grinding out rulebooks is not a problem.




 
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Don't be afraid to ask seemingly inane questions to make sure of things that you have an inkling of concern about.

It's better to have a straight answer from one of the friendly folks here and have that inform you going forward than be unsure of an aspect of the game and then have that impact how you perceive other rules and cause more difficulties.

All of us are happy to help!
 
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chris penoyer
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I'm a little unclear on how to spot and combat units in the 2nd story of a building when you're on the ground level. (infantry only)
 
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That does get a little complicated sometimes! Do you have a specific scenario in mind or just want clarification in general?

Essentially, think of the "upper level" of a building as a hex within a hex for almost all purposes. When you move into the downstairs of a building, you still have to spend an additional 2 movement points to move into melee with the enemies upstairs. If you can't do that, obviously you have to wait for the next turn!

You can fire from one level to another, so long as you're on the same "parent" hex i.e. if there's a two story building at hex D3 and you have units on the bottom floor and the enemy has units on the top floor. They are considered adjacent and can fire at one another as well as automatically spot one another like in the rules for other adjacent units (getting the +2 modifier etc.) and receive the defense benefit of the building when applicable too (usually +3 or +4).

Now where it gets tricky is perhaps when you have a multi hex building with an upper and lower level. Lets say there's a unit on the second level of a building in E1 but there's an enemy unit on the ground floor of the same building that has it art extend to hex E2. Even though they are in the same building and in adjacent hexes there is no line of sight and fire combat can not ensue. This is to demonstrate things like walls and staircases and other obstacles just being too in the way for combat to occur. If they were both on one level or the other, combat could happen.

Now, another thing that's left vague and sort of needed to be worked out in the forums was whether or not a unit in, say, the street outside a building was adjacent to a unit on the second level of a building in a hex next to them. Normally, adjacent is meant to be hexes you can move into with a single move but the "hex within a hex" thing kind of throws a wrench into that and makes the upper levels of the buildings behave strangely. Essentially, the conclusions reached were these----

Hexes that are adjacent that have a clear LOS to each other are to be considered adjacent.

Hexes that are adjacent that do not have a clear LOS, ie blocked, to each other are to be considered not adjacent. Example: different levels of the same building. (This is the only example I can think of...)


This lays it out fairly simply, you can check out the thread here.

http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/buildings-and-adjace...

In terms of spotting, a unit on the upper level of a building can be spotted on a roll of 2 or less(since buildings are blocking terrain) if there are no other factors involved like degrading terrain/smoke in between the spotter and the unit. As it's a hex within a hex, if there are units on the first floor that are spotted for reasons like having already moved or fired then the upper level units are not affected by that, they are within their own little cubby as it were and need to be spotted independently.

Now
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chris penoyer
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That's what i figured. I just wanted to make sure i could fire on them and that melee wasn't the only option.


Being there's units on the 2nd floor... they can choose to OP fire on me when i enter the building, correct?


and you can OP fire on units who are in degrading terrain that normal move within range - correct? (you don't have to spot them first)
 
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Yes you can OP fire when an enemy unit reaches the first floor of the tile you occupy the second floor within. Typically I would say that it would be better to fire when they are more in the open since they will get the building modifier for defense and you still get the adjacency bonus for them being in the tile next to your perched unit but that might not be applicable in every instance.

As soon as any enemy unit is moving they are spotted. They could be in blocking terrain or degrading terrain it doesn't matter. What does matter is whether or not a piece of blocking terrain or a total of three or more pieces of degrading terrain existing between your unit and the hex that the enemy is moving into. In either instance, the fire can not be conducted.

 
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chris penoyer
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I'm playing "That Damned Hill" scenario and I have 2 Off-Board Artillery Smoke Missions at my disposal. I assume this works the same as normal artillery?

Let me make sure i got this correct....please correct me if wrong

1. Drop the Spotting counter on the desired hex
2. Roll 2d6
3. White Die Sum + Degrading hexes - LM / 2 = drift distance
4. Red die determines drift direction
5. If out of LOS it's OPs Complete. If within LOS adjust 1 hex any direction to FFE. Or Abort.



Book says "add the number of degrading terrain hexes the LOS PASSES THROUGH"
If it's an adjacent hex of degrading terrain is the number of degrading terrain hexes still 1... or 0?


 
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herodreamer79 wrote:
I'm playing "That Damned Hill" scenario and I have 2 Off-Board Artillery Smoke Missions at my disposal. I assume this works the same as normal artillery?

Let me make sure i got this correct....please correct me if wrong

1. Drop the Spotting counter on the desired hex
2. Roll 2d6
3. White Die Sum + Degrading hexes - LM / 2 = drift distance
4. Red die determines drift direction
5. If out of LOS it's OPs Complete. If within LOS adjust 1 hex any direction to FFE. Or Abort.



Book says "add the number of degrading terrain hexes the LOS PASSES THROUGH"
If it's an adjacent hex of degrading terrain is the number of degrading terrain hexes still 1... or 0?



Someone take this one I suck at artillery!
 
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Norman Smith
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Chris your notes 1 - 5 are on the money.

Essentially the actual target hex needs to remain in line of sight of a spotter, once fire is executed, some of the adjacent hexes may not be in line of sight, but that is OK, they are still hit.

You are right that PASSES THROUGH is the key reference, not INTO.

But I am not sure what your last sentence relates to, if you mean that the spotter has degrading terrain next to them and they look THROUGH that to see the target hex beyond, then yes, that will count as having passed through a degrading hex
 
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chris penoyer
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Thanks a bunch. Appreciate all the help from everyone. It's def helping. My game play is getting smoother now and i'm having quite a bit of fun. i was worried how playing both sides of the battle would effect the solitaire play, but it really hasn't been a problem.

Still, questions continue to pop up, so bear with me.

Okay so I used a unit to throw a Satchel into a Cave hex... but I'm unclear as to how the satchel attacks the cave exactly. What's the 'procedure'?

Does it collapse the cave? do the inside cave units perform damage checks? do they get the cave TM discount? How does that work?
 
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Norman Smith
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once you decide to attack units in a cave with the satchel charge, it helps to think only of the attack on the units, not the cave.

Run your attack against the units in the normal way. The actual hex may have a TM, use that. In addition add in the TM of the cave itself, which is 3. Remember not to exceed the maximum modifier.

Now run the attack as normal against the enemy units.

IF that attack causes a Damage Check - then run the damage check normally against the unit(s) BUT also (because of creating a damage check) automatically collapse the cave entrance. So damage to a cave entrance only comes out from the need to do a damage check against the occupants.

Any occupants will then have to move in accordance with the tunnel rules, they are underground, invisible to anything above ground, until they make it to another destination cave entrance hex.
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chris penoyer
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How does Assault Move interact with Opportunity Fire? Or does it?

Say I Assault Move on one position but come into LOS of another, thus triggering an OF situation. How does that resolve?
 
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Martin Gallo
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Is VASSAL a possibility for you? It seems like a Skype enhanced VASSAL game would work well for training. Next best this to being there...

(Note that my LnL skills are so rusty I might do more damage than help.)
 
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There is a listing of the movement steps in the rulebook, pages 18-19 under the Movement header.

1.Unit enters a hex

2.Resolve any Fire for Effect or Mine attacks.

3.Possible Event Triggers

4.All Possible OF is conducted.

5.If units are still in good order, proceed with its next action(auto-spotting adjacent units, moving, firing if Assault Moving, etc).

So Opportunity Fire interacts with the moving unit or units before they are able to bring their own guns to bear. If they are still in good order after receiving their share of OF then they may fire on their own, bearing in mind all other factors.

Or are you talking about entering melee? You can't Assault Move into melee since it would possibly give a unit too many attacks for that activation. If you are referring to entering into melee on its own with regular movement then no Opportunity Fire would be possible because the melee would initiate immediately and you can't fire into a hex tagged with melee.
 
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chris penoyer
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no not melee... just assault moving against one hex and coming into LOS range of other units that can OF. What triggers first? The assault move fire? or the opportunity fire? because if the Op Fire goes first and hits the Assault Move that can interrupt/effect the assault.

Your post answered my question perfectly.

Thanks!
 
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chris penoyer
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Aircraft

F4F Wildcat
top numbers. There's a 2x4 i know what that is
(hexes X firepower)

what is the 2x2 next to it (and what's the significant of the 2 being in blue)?

and the G4M Betty just has a Hex grid. how does that play?


Rulebook doesn't have a counter breakdown of the aircraft like it does for the tanks and infantry.. and is only lightly covered in the rulebook.
 
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Norman Smith
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Chris, The second 2 x 2 shows that the aircraft also carries bombs, the first two is the number of hexes that can be attacked (just like with the cannon) and the two in a blue square is the H.E. equivalent of those bombs when attacking non-vehicles.

The hex grid on the Betty counter is covered in the scenario book at rule 19.1.2 (bombers).
 
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chris penoyer
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martimer wrote:
Is VASSAL a possibility for you? It seems like a Skype enhanced VASSAL game would work well for training. Next best this to being there...

(Note that my LnL skills are so rusty I might do more damage than help.)


Thanks for the offer, but that won't be necessary. You all have been more than helpful enough here. I actually enjoy learning games on my own anyway.

Plus I feel like i've got the meat of it down as it is.

Some of the Tank stuff has been a little head spinning with all the different STUFF you need to know, but i'm getting there. few more questions here and there and i should be good to go.


For instance Aircraft Arrival.
in the scenario "Red Beach Red" it says i have the Wildcat available on Turn 2. does that mean i can activate him whenever i want from that point?

I only ask because in the core manual there's the section about aircraft arriving randomly (19.1)

 
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