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Subject: Eclipse v1 vs. v2 rss

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Kira Peavley
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Here is a summary of some of the changes to both rules and components that are being made in Eclipse: Second Dawn for the Galaxy

Rules
- Discoveries can be claimed without placing an Influence Disc when*:
- - *Exploring and placing a new hex.
- - *Destroying all Ancient(s) / Guardian / GCDS in a hex at the end of Combat Phase.
- The first player to pass receives 2 Money.
- Game lasts only 8 rounds.
- One Influence action may not be used in the same hex twice.
- If you have Diplomatic relations with another player, you may move through his empty hexes (ie. hexes without a Ship). If you have Ships in another player’s hex at the end of your action, it is considered an attack.
- Player elimination when all discs and Ships removed from the board: same as bankruptcy.

Components
Species:
- Balancing to the starting ship blueprints as well as starting resources.
- Changes to starting technologies.
Hexes:
- Revisions to base game hexes.
- Additional outpost hexes which were first introduced in RotA as Ancient Homeworlds.
- Galactic Center has significant changes.
Tech tiles:
- Minor changes in prices.
- Inclusion of Rare tech tiles.
Miniatures:
Ship pack 1 comes in the base game, new miniatures for Orbital, Monolith, Ancients, Guardians, and GCDS.
Dice:
- All dice are custom with hit and miss iconography.
- Additional 6 blue dice.
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Zack Stackurski
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Nice work on the cleanup of minor rules! A couple of those (when to reveal a discovery and whether or not moving through empty hexes lead to betrayal) come up in every single game I play.

My first thought on the 2 credit bonus for passing first was "Why give the person gaining first choice of new techs an extra bonus?" but sometimes that first passer is doing so because of economic trouble, especially if they are new to the game, so that boost makes a lot of sense in those situations. I do feel like I should have been bothered by one less turn to the game, but I suspect it just eliminates one round of cold war posturing to get to the all out war for points in the final rounds faster.

I'm excited to see the recosting and restructuring you've done on the new tiles. If you used the same light touch you've used on the rules this edition will be a great tune up on the fantastic original. Thanks for taking such good care of one of my favorite games as you take it into its Second Edition!
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offdutyninja wrote:
Components
Species:
- Balancing to the starting ship blueprints as well as starting resources.
- Changes to starting technologies.
Hexes:
- Revisions to base game hexes.
- Additional outpost hexes which were first introduced in RotA as Ancient Homeworlds.
- Galactic Center has significant changes.
Tech tiles:
- Minor changes in prices.
- Inclusion of Rare tech tiles.

Thanks for the clarifications! However, I think that I may have a different understanding of what constitute "rules" changes, because it seems to me that term could apply to most of the changes listed here. The details could directly influence my decision of whether or not to pick up the second edition. I am wondering if we'll be getting precise details of these changes before the end of the Kickstarter campaign.
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Kira Peavley
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wamsp wrote:
offdutyninja wrote:
Components
Species:
- Balancing to the starting ship blueprints as well as starting resources.
- Changes to starting technologies.
Hexes:
- Revisions to base game hexes.
- Additional outpost hexes which were first introduced in RotA as Ancient Homeworlds.
- Galactic Center has significant changes.
Tech tiles:
- Minor changes in prices.
- Inclusion of Rare tech tiles.

Thanks for the clarifications! However, I think that I may have a different understanding of what constitute "rules" changes, because it seems to me that I would apply that word to most of the changes listed here would (or could) constitute "rules changes", the details of which would directly influence my decision of whether or not to pick up the second edition. I am wondering if we'll be getting precise details of these changes before the end of the Kickstarter campaign.


Yes, we will get into more specific details closer to & during the campaign. Thanks for asking!
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Kyle Carroll
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Oh this is exciting! It looks like a decent amount from RotA (Ancient Homeworlds...now called outposts? as well as Rare Technology)is being included in the new base game, and with Ship Pack 1 miniatures, and miniatures for what were formerly cardboard tokens, that makes this even more worth grabbing, to me at least.
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Joe Martineau
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Surprised to hear the game is being shortened. Do you anticipate it generally taking less to play with one fewer round?
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Geoff Speare
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I assume the dice still have numbers, or are shields/computers changing as well?
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Paul Brown
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Thank you for posting this. The #1 requirement for me to buy 2nd edition is for the base game to include all of the species, is this happening? I know for example when Twilight Imperium 4 was released all 17 species came with it and that is what convinced me to get it.

I'm really glad to see rare techs in the base! They added a lot of flavor to the game.
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mike
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going to come down to pricing..
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Ivan Alaiz
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UnalignedMagi wrote:
Thank you for posting this. The #1 requirement for me to buy 2nd edition is for the base game to include all of the species, is this happening? I know for example when Twilight Imperium 4 was released all 17 species came with it and that is what convinced me to get it.

I'm really glad to see rare techs in the base! They added a lot of flavor to the game.


Since they are going with individual ship designs fat chance you'll see anything other than the base races, they will just reuse ship pack 1 molds.

I f they put as a bonus vanish lost souls of argalon though... that would only be 1 ship whistle
 
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Daniel Eig
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This rule change seems to have the potential to be a bit fiddly:
- One Influence action may not be used in the same hex twice
If you have a lot of actions, how do you keep track? Do you mark the hex?
 
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Chris K.
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dtolman wrote:
This rule change seems to have the potential to be a bit fiddly:
- One Influence action may not be used in the same hex twice
If you have a lot of actions, how do you keep track? Do you mark the hex?


I believe it means "within one influence action". So all it does is that it prevents you to do the old "grey planet switcheroo" where you uninfluence a system with a grey planet and reinfluence it within the same action for highly efficient shifting around of production.
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Chris K.
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Quote:
- Destroying all Ancient(s) / Guardian / GCDS in a hex at the end of Combat Phase.


I am not sure I understand this one at all.

Does this mean that these will not have to actually be fought anymore because they will be automatically destroyed?
 
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Dan Williams
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chrisdk wrote:
Quote:
- Destroying all Ancient(s) / Guardian / GCDS in a hex at the end of Combat Phase.


I am not sure I understand this one at all.

Does this mean that these will not have to actually be fought anymore because they will be automatically destroyed?


Think that's one of the conditions for being able to claim discoveries without needing to place an influence disk.
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Jędrzej Jarocki
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chrisdk wrote:
Quote:
- Destroying all Ancient(s) / Guardian / GCDS in a hex at the end of Combat Phase.


I am not sure I understand this one at all.

Does this mean that these will not have to actually be fought anymore because they will be automatically destroyed?


You clear the hex, you get the discovery tile without a need to put your influence disk.

Edit: ninja
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neko flying
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chrisdk wrote:
dtolman wrote:
This rule change seems to have the potential to be a bit fiddly:
- One Influence action may not be used in the same hex twice
If you have a lot of actions, how do you keep track? Do you mark the hex?


I believe it means "within one influence action". So all it does is that it prevents you to do the old "grey planet switcheroo" where you uninfluence a system with a grey planet and reinfluence it within the same action for highly efficient shifting around of production.


I agree with your interpretation. It does not strike me as something that needs to be fixed, to be honest. Have you ever seen it abused in practice?
 
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neko flying
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RageGoblin wrote:
Surprised to hear the game is being shortened. Do you anticipate it generally taking less to play with one fewer round?


In addition to one round shorter, some of the rules changes will speed the game up. E.g. I know I spend a significant portion of many rounds calculating tactical bankruptcy in my head in order to get the bloody Discovery.

I am a bit worried by the fact that playing to 8 rounds instead of 9 will require re-balancing all the races. If they had kept the same length, I would have trusted the developers and testers to do an excellent job fine-tuning the different races. Shortening the game by one round will make balancing the races quite a bit tricky.
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Dan Williams
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flying_neko wrote:
In addition to one round shorter, some of the rules changes will speed the game up. E.g. I know I spend a significant portion of many rounds calculating tactical bankruptcy in my head in order to get the bloody Discovery.


That's a good point. I'm not sure how I feel about automatically getting Discoveries when exploring. I quite like that they add another level of decision making into the game. But perhaps making exploring more rewarding, and shifting the focus away from tactical bankruptcy a little will make for more player interaction and less book-keeping.
 
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Chris K.
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spitfire23bc wrote:
chrisdk wrote:
Quote:
- Destroying all Ancient(s) / Guardian / GCDS in a hex at the end of Combat Phase.


I am not sure I understand this one at all.

Does this mean that these will not have to actually be fought anymore because they will be automatically destroyed?


Think that's one of the conditions for being able to claim discoveries without needing to place an influence disk.


I knew I was missing something. Yay for missing indentation ;-)

Thanks a bunch.
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DB
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galfridus wrote:
offdutyninja wrote:
Dice:
- All dice are custom with hit and miss iconography.
I assume the dice still have numbers, or are shields/computers changing as well?

This is probably the most interesting change to me, because it seems like they could go three different directions with it: either computers/shields are just +X/-X hits, they add/subtract dice, or we go X-Wing style with attack and defense rolls.

Depending on how this works with shields, we might be looking at a more fundamental reworking of missiles.
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I can't imagine not having the option to play Magellan and Rho Indi. It's very disappointing to me that they would not include the expansion races in there.

Hopefully they are and he simply didn't list them yet, holding back some surprise.
 
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ghbell wrote:
I can't imagine not having the option to play Magellan and Rho Indi. It's very disappointing to me that they would not include the expansion races in there.

Hopefully they are and he simply didn't list them yet, holding back some surprise.

They have to hold something back for expansions (and stretch goals). I appreciate that a good chunk of the RotA content that always felt part of the base game is being implemented as such.
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Gannon Dubay
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dpbush wrote:
galfridus wrote:
offdutyninja wrote:
Dice:
- All dice are custom with hit and miss iconography.
I assume the dice still have numbers, or are shields/computers changing as well?

This is probably the most interesting change to me, because it seems like they could go three different directions with it: either computers/shields are just +X/-X hits, they add/subtract dice, or we go X-Wing style with attack and defense rolls.

Depending on how this works with shields, we might be looking at a more fundamental reworking of missiles.

It might just be normal dice with the 1 changed to a miss icon and the 6 changed to a hit icon.
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dpbush wrote:
ghbell wrote:
I can't imagine not having the option to play Magellan and Rho Indi. It's very disappointing to me that they would not include the expansion races in there.

Hopefully they are and he simply didn't list them yet, holding back some surprise.

They have to hold something back for expansions (and stretch goals). I appreciate that a good chunk of the RotA content that always felt part of the base game is being implemented as such.


I suppose. They included the full races for TI4. To me, Magellan and Rho Indi are part of the RotA content that I think of as "base game."
 
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Tahsin Shamma
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Overall I think the changes look like just the right amount for 2nd Ed.

As I posted in another thread, I just hope the expansions are offered in a modular way instead of as a conglomeration of options.
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