GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
8,067 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
21 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Titan» Forums » Strategy

Subject: How to win when behind rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Luc LaGraff
United States
flag msg tools
So, me and a friend have played 5 games of Titan 1v1, and each time someone wins before we can get to the lategame creatures. That is, the person who wins is the person who musters Rangers or Gorgons the fastest, and uses said Ranger/Gorgon stacks to decimate the other player's long-game recruiting stacks. Yes, the losing player can be defensive, protect their remaining good legion, etc., but even then-- it feels like the winner of the ranger-gorg phase is at a huge advantage. You have more stacks, which means a die roll will allow you to recruit more, which means you can split more, which means that a die roll will allow you to recruit more, etc.......other than narrowing it down to the titan stack and crossing your fingers, we have no idea how to come back as a losing player.

Is this just how 1v1 games go? Or are there other ways that the loser of the "first phase" of the game get back in the fight?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Johnston
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
You could try Titan Plus rules, starting with Lions, Cyclops, and Trolls. There will still be "Air Force" stacks, but quicker to better stacks.

Jeff
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludwig Seitz
Sweden
Lund
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Rangers and Gorgons are a valid strategy, but if the other player manages to survive and develop long enough, her stacks will eventually be able to kill Ranger/Gorgon armies without significant losses and just grow stronger, while the R/G player is at a dead end.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BadMotherlucker wrote:
Is this just how 1v1 games go? Or are there other ways that the loser of the "first phase" of the game get back in the fight?

I'm no expert in this game, but in a 2-player game, it's common that one player has the advantage right now and the other player will have the advantage eventually. If so, then the one with the advantage right now has a strong incentive to attack their opponent's Titan so as to force a resolution immediately. If it's truly a close game, then that player has to take chances, so that showdown could go either way.

The other player engages in avoidance to some extent while not completely shutting down recruiting.

What you may be seeing is a situation in which one player simply has an advantage across the board and wins. There is no catch-up mechanism in Titan, but fortunately, with 2 players, the game ends quickly when it's a runaway, and you can just play again.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Scott
United States
Cedar Springs
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmb
I would be interested in watching a game of yours develop. It's my experience that while rangers and gorgons can be devastating while on the attack, they can be highly vulnerable when attacked, especially when you can engage them before they can range strike. Also, while your opponent is building those attack legions, what are you doing with your summoning? Sometimes there is no cure for bad luck, but Titan is such a deep and complex game that there's usually some sort of counter to your opponent, especially in a two person game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Bankler
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"Keep Summer Safe!"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While waiting for the people who have much more experience than me, a few thoughts. (I do have a few hundred plays, but not against top players).

1) As others have pointed out, Rangers/Gorgons are dead ends and (given time) will become weaker and eventually tasty snacks.

So, how to get time?

a) A probably dead stack (being chased by rangers/gorgons) can split off chaff. Now it takes two turns to kill it (and both stacks should probably flee to avoid giving points). Don't bother recruiting in 'dead' stacks unless you are safely away (or it lets you split again, to...)

b) Drop your chaff (that you split off to make room for recruiting) into spaces that pull your opponent down (like the Jungles...the spaces with squares). The board is a centrifuge and if your opponents Murder stack is in the outer-ring, it will take time to climb back up and have limited options. That assume you aren't already in the outer ring yourself, of course.

2) Recruit rangers/gorgons yourself. They are good, after all. I don't normally recruit into throw away stacks (although in 2p, with a wide open board, its not so bad) but splitting off two lions (once that's reasonable) and trying to grab a bunch of the rangers isn't a bad idea. Remember, dead creatures are out of the game (demi-lords excluded). They can go surprisingly fast (on a wide open board, you may split off ranger+something, recruit two rangers, split again. This only works in 2p, and even then is not necessarily good. You are likely giving away points to do this, unless your stacks manage to get to a survivable size fast enough).

3) Attack! Ranged attacks are much worse on defense. An equal stack (assuming you can't get a bigger one) and an Angel to summon is a potent threat.

4) Take advantage of terrain. Rangers in the brush (vs natives) aren't great. The -1 skill is a big deal. Hide a weaker (but not worthless) stack in a tower.

5) Take bigger risks.

a) If you need to assume some good luck to win, assume it. Maybe assume your opponent will roll low and place your key stack on a good recruiting (but dangerous) spot 3 away, and pray for the 1-2, or
b) Make an underdog attack. For example, Send your Titan into a ranger (etc) stack, pull your angel in, and hope that the combination of attacking, lord's immunity to range strikes, the summoned angel, etc, play in your favor. With a 6 strength Titan, this is a terrible idea. With a 9 strength Titan and some screening creatures, an average roll one punches a ranger or gorgon. Ideally you end the battle with your Titan almost dead. (How big are your Titans when these stacks roam the board?) If you win, you hopefully level up, get an angel, and pray you can still recruit something useful. (If not, off to the tower and grab a Warlock and you are on the points track yourself).

And if you lose, well, you were losing.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Fogel
United States
Pacifica
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I feel like 2-player Titan is a VERY different game than 4- or 6-player. I don’t enjoy 2-player games because it seems to me that it comes down to the movement rolls more than anything else. If you don’t get the rolls you need to recruit, like the OP said, you’ll find yourself in a hole you can’t climb out of very quickly despite your best efforts.

In 3+ player games, this is mitigated somewhat by the threats the other players pose to each other and the culling that will go on among them.

That being said, if someone is collecting rangers/gorgons and I’m in a weak position, I try to stay out of their way while going for a long game, hitting the inside ring as often as I can. Eventually rangers/gorgons become annoyances, but the trick is to outlast them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dietrologia wrote:
I feel like 2-player Titan is a VERY different game than 4- or 6-player. I don’t enjoy 2-player games because it seems to me that it comes down to the movement rolls more than anything else. If you don’t get the rolls you need to recruit, like the OP said, you’ll find yourself in a hole you can’t climb out of very quickly despite your best efforts.

There is a huge amount of skill in 2-player Titan. There has been a 2-player tournament for many years at the World Boardgaming Championships, and the same players do well every year.

http://www.boardgamers.org/eventhistory/tt2.html

So I think it comes down primarily to player skill, with die rolls making the difference when players of similar skill meet. Which is how it should be.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Lundstrom
Sweden
flag msg tools
When your opponent is ahead, hunker down, play defensively, and recruit. He will run into the 12-stack limit sooner than you do. It won't always work, but it's a workable strategy. Or you can try to blitz his Titan.

I play a lot of 2-player Titan on the App (just under 75% win rate), and it's not my experience that Ranger/Gorgon stacks are the end-all, be-all. They're very nice when you can get them, and I often try to grow one or two (or the even cooler stack, the Gorgon/Warlock stack), but they're not usually what decides the game.

If your opponent goes for Ranger/Gorgon in the Titan stack, that stack will eventually get obsolete for Titan/Titan fights, if you can hold out long enough.

If you split both Gargoyles into your Titan stack, you will almost always get a very capabale Jungle-based stack that can most certainly stand up to Rangers and Gorgons.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neema Salimi
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
Quote:
So, me and a friend have played 5 games of Titan 1v1, and each time someone wins before we can get to the lategame creatures.


This is a good thing. Even in 2-player Titan, you can't just turtle your way to victory. The game is set up to reward aggression, with the increasing power of the Titan, Angels coming every 100 points, and Titan Teleport. If you're always getting Colossus vs Serpent battles in your games, neither of you are aggressive enough.

Quote:
That is, the person who wins is the person who musters Rangers or Gorgons the fastest, and uses said Ranger/Gorgon stacks to decimate the other player's long-game recruiting stacks.


Those stacks (especially the combo with both) recruit fast, easily get to 7-high, and with an Angel, can do a ton of damage. So yes, often you can win if you catch an underdeveloped Titan with a Ranger stack.

So, 1) get one yourself, and 2) kill theirs before it's dangerous.

For (1), what a lot of new players do is go for the 3rd lion/troll/cyclops automatically and don't consider the probabilities on the immediate rolls for griffon/wyvern/behemoth, but also THAT STACK'S PURPOSE. If you have a 2 lion/2 gargoyle stack and land in the plains, GET A RANGER! If the same stack could go to the desert for the third lion or brush/jungle for a cyclops, TAKE THE CYCLOPS! Outside of crazy lucky rolls, most stacks either end up as fodder or need to get 7-high and go kill something.

For (2), that goes back to being aggressive. Push small edges. If you're 7-high and can call in an angel, take out your 5-high opponent's stack.

As for overcoming the ranger stack once it's there (and presumably, you're behind), you have two main options: 1) Develop a strong Titan stack, get Titan Teleport, and go to town or 2) Go after his Titan with everything you have.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.