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Gloomhaven» Forums » Rules

Subject: Retaliate and AOE Melee Attacks rss

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Nathan Hepting
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The rules call any attack that does not specify a range to be a "melee attack" however in some cases, a melee aoe attack can hit hexes that are not next to your character. If you hit an enemy that is not next to your character with one of these melee attacks, does the enemy retaliate?

When the issue came up for us, we thought that the enemy that was beside the player would retaliate but the one that is further away would not even though it was still technically a melee attack. Was that correct, or should both enemies have retaliated?
 
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michael ray
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007quick wrote:
The rules call any attack that does not specify a range to be a "melee attack" however in some cases, a melee aoe attack can hit hexes that are not next to your character. If you hit an enemy that is not next to your character with one of these melee attacks, does the enemy retaliate?

When the issue came up for us, we thought that the enemy that was beside the player would retaliate but the one that is further away would not even though it was still technically a melee attack. Was that correct, or should both enemies have retaliated?


Retaliate is range based, with an assumed range of 1, unless otherwise stated on the card. So, if it just says retaliate, it's not retaliating any melee attack, it's retaliating any range 1 attack.

So, in this case (assuming a retaliate with out range), the enemy would not retaliate.

By the same token, if you range attack from range 1 (ie, adjacent hex), the enemy would retaliate.


EDIT: TL;DR; you did it correctly.
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Nathan Hepting
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Ah ok. I had not encountered the ranged retaliate yet and must have missed that in the rule book. Knowing that they can have a range makes what we encountered clearer. The 2 monsters would retaliate only if they had a range 2 (or more) indicator along with the retaliate.

Thank you
 
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Richard Schofield
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007quick wrote:
Ah ok. I had not encountered the ranged retaliate yet



Believe me once you meet the Monster that has a ranged retaliate, you'll remember it!!
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Nathan Hepting
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scooph81 wrote:
Believe me once you meet the Monster that has a ranged retaliate, you'll remember it!!


Haha... I'm sure that would suck royally. We are only one scenario in so far but enjoying the game greatly.
 
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Dwight Sullivan
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scooph81 wrote:
007quick wrote:
Ah ok. I had not encountered the ranged retaliate yet

Believe me once you meet the Monster that has a ranged retaliate, you'll remember it!!


Absolutely
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Flame Demon Level 3
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Retaliate 2
range 2
Shield 3
On the stat card. When I first read that it was a complete HOLEY SH$T moment.
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Jay Johnson
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nothing like doing a ranged attack against an adjacent enemy with retaliate. Not only is the attack made at disadvantage, but the retaliate also fires back.
 
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Will Fergus

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Something that confused me on this front is that the Cragheart (who I'm playing) has a level 1 ability that specifically calls out "retaliate 2 on melee attacks" rather that "retaliate 2".
 
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Jay Johnson
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dragonlordged wrote:
Something that confused me on this front is that the Cragheart (who I'm playing) has a level 1 ability that specifically calls out "retaliate 2 on melee attacks" rather that "retaliate 2".

that's because it is a persistant ability with limited "charges".
If it said "on the next 6 attacks targeting you, gain retaliate 2", then you would be wasting a charge whenever you were targetted by a ranged attack unless the enemy was adjacent to you. Because you would be targetted by an attack, thus expending the charge, but your retaliate would fail because the attacking enemy was out of range.
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Will Fergus

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Makes sense, though it was confusing as written.
 
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Des T.
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dragonlordged wrote:
Something that confused me on this front is that the Cragheart (who I'm playing) has a level 1 ability that specifically calls out "retaliate 2 on melee attacks" rather that "retaliate 2".


I don't have the card on hand, but with that wording, it won't proc off ranged attacks fired at melee range (as opposed to standard retaliate). It's a rare issue, but should come up occasionally.
 
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Jay Johnson
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
dragonlordged wrote:
Something that confused me on this front is that the Cragheart (who I'm playing) has a level 1 ability that specifically calls out "retaliate 2 on melee attacks" rather that "retaliate 2".


I don't have the card on hand, but with that wording, it won't proc off ranged attacks fired at melee range (as opposed to standard retaliate). It's a rare issue, but should come up occasionally.

the exact wording on the card is:
"On the next six melee attacks targeting you, gain Retaliate 2"

So ranged attacks against them (even ones done from adjacent hexes) would not trigger the retaliate.
But AoE melee attacks that extend the melee attack beyond adjacent hexes would trigger the retaliate, but since the attacker is outside of the retaliate's default range of 1, it would not actually damage the attacker. but would just waste the charge (other than possibly generating XP)

This is based on literal interpretation of the card and the rulebook. There could be errata that I'm not aware of.
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Richard Schofield
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JayJ79 wrote:
DeS_Tructive wrote:
dragonlordged wrote:
Something that confused me on this front is that the Cragheart (who I'm playing) has a level 1 ability that specifically calls out "retaliate 2 on melee attacks" rather that "retaliate 2".


I don't have the card on hand, but with that wording, it won't proc off ranged attacks fired at melee range (as opposed to standard retaliate). It's a rare issue, but should come up occasionally.

the exact wording on the card is:
"On the next six melee attacks targeting you, gain Retaliate 2"

So ranged attacks against them (even ones done from adjacent hexes) would not trigger the retaliate.
But AoE melee attacks that extend the melee attack beyond adjacent hexes would trigger the retaliate, but since the attacker is outside of the retaliate's default range of 1, it would not actually damage the attacker. but would just waste the charge (other than possibly generating XP)

This is based on literal interpretation of the card and the rulebook. There could be errata that I'm not aware of.


To my understanding, this statement is completely accurate and the reasoning behind it is, as mentioned earlier in the thread, to avoid wasting a charge on non eligible attacks (i.e. ranged attacks at range) if the wording was simply "On the next six attacks against you gain retaliate 2"
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