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Batman: Gotham City Chronicles» Forums » General

Subject: Information about hero selection? rss

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Mitchell Cherney
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My biggest concern right now is hero choices for each scenario. Red Robin is my favorite member of the bat family, so I am probably going all-in to get his mini. I'm wondering if that will be worth it for me if I will only be able to choose him in Wayne Manor scenarios. Has Monolith put out any information in regards to hero selection? I saw update #34 talking about choices for a few scenarios, but more info would be greatly appreciated.
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David Andersson
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You will be able to use any units you want for the versus mode. But when it comes to scenarios, I'm not sure.
 
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I've been wondering the same thing about Oracle. Will she be available in any scenarios outside the Wayne Manor expansion?

In general, this update makes me question the flexibility of the game. At first glance, with the tons of available villains and heroes, it seems that the number of different lineups you could create would be *enormous*. However, despite what they're saying in the update, it seems that you are actually quite limited in the combinations of villains/heroes you can use. I'd decided to back the game, but now for the first time I'm starting to have doubts.

I've known for some time that villains will be limited to certain scenarios, but this is the first time I've heard that the heroes will be similarly limited. This severely limits the number of combinations that can be used. If I want to play Oracle and have friends who want to play Batwoman and Commissioner Gordon, will there be any scenarios that support this? How about if we want to fight Harley Quinn, how many different combinations of heroes will let us do this? The number of different possibilities go down even further if you consider that many scenarios will have a maximum number of supported players (if I understand correctly, only 7 of the 20 base scenarios will support 4 players - so most villains will not even be available for this very common player count).

Most people have some characters that appeal to them more than others, and in my experience, it's much easier to get "casual gamers" interested in playing a game if they can play these characters. I had thought that this would be trivial in BGCC, but now it seems that it will actually in many cases be hard to pull off in the game. That's a pity, since it will make the game less appealing to some people that I would like to play it with (most of who would only know of a handful of the included characters).


Now, I certainly understand that when scenarios are limited in both which villains and which heroes can be used, you can craft a more involved story with many interesting options and twists (not to mention a more balanced game), but there is also something to say for flexibility. Maybe they could *also* include a handful of scenarios that are more "freeform", with a choice of a number of villains, and with very few restrictions on which heroes could be used? I feel that such options would go a long way towards making the game more flexible - something that has *huge* potential thanks to the fantastic work that has been done with adding the great lineup of both heroes of villains.
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Freelance Police
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I'm sure you *could* mix and match however you want. It's just that boardgamers want playtesting and balance, and you can only do so much of that in a game. Wargamers don't seem to sweat it, despite how the same unit for the same point cost can be much more effective in one terrain over another. The "problem" is that, before Descent, the game master was there to entertain the players, not act as an opponent. Once you made the game master an opponent, you now had to make the game "balanced" (even though it's not hard to find a Descent scenario that isn't). Boardgamers don't all want sandboxes -- they want something to play, not develop. I'm sure someone will come up with some sort of system to make the scenarios more flexible, or a scenario that fits better what you and your friends want to play. My thoughts are to not worry about it. If someone wants to play a particular character, let them -- and beef up their opponents.
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Paul Nugent
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My guess is that the expansion Heroes & Villains would be restricted to their respective expansion scenarios, otherwise you might have a scenario where your base game asks to use a figure you don’t have because you don’t own the expansion.

Think of it in a similar way to how Imperial Assault works. The expansions could use materials from their own expansion and the core box, because the game can guarantee you have all the required components to play said scenario.
 
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I hope the expansion rulebooks come with instructions for integrating the new characters into the core scenarios. That way everyone wins, the people who go all in can get the most out of the extra content and the people who only get a core don't feel like they missed out.
 
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Thilo M.
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Also I think neither the heroes nor the scenarios would be as interesting if you just change them at will. I think it will probably work in many cases but will affect balance.
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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GrandKhan44 wrote:
Also I think neither the heroes nor the scenarios would be as interesting if you just change them at will. I think it will probably work in many cases but will affect balance.

It has been said repetedly by officials, and the Scenario Presentation Updates confirm most of it:
- versus mode is of free composition
- narrative mode have fixed composition. However, Heroes' side is offered some swaps (Like "Montoya & allies" or "Batman" in the update example). At this day, the Villain side has NO possible swaps. My personnal hope is that it will have some, but Monolith said nothing (but the opposide) regarding this sub-matter.

Regarding what mini comes with what scenario, my guess:
- base box scenarios will work with base box miniature. Swaps might imply any other miniature
- expansions scenarios will work with said expansion miniatures and base box'. Swaps might imply any other
- Stretch goal scenarios might imply any miniature


The hardest part being to have scenarios & number of players according any offered Villain (since that is the only fixed thing so far).
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Carquinyoli

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Thanks Christophe,

I looks like the main motive to get Versus is that you can pick the heroes and villains you want for your team.

The Adventure mode (the "core" mode) most probably will have everything fixed except for some very limited hero swaps. But (my opinion) when we have the game under control, I'd say we would have enough information and acknowledgement to tweak the scenarios including the characters we want without unbalancing the "fixed" scenarios.
 
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Marko Parviainen
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Just play the scenarios as intended.

Then, after having gotten the feel of the scenario, start experimenting. Choose a different combination of heroes to see if they can do better or worse than the recommended hero choises.

Or swap the main villain. If it was two-face, try swapping in Joker and see if he'd do better job. Swap the two-face goons with Joker goons while you're at it.

There is no scenario police to come and take away your game if you experiment with the scenarios this way (or will that be a SG?)

After you have done playing the scenarios that come with the game AND have played the same scenarios, but with modified content (different heroes and/or villains), you might even start making your own scenarios.

Also, there will be lots of fan made and official scenarios that are released after the KS is over. Conan has had a bunch of new scenarios.
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Nicholas Palmer
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I see no reason why base game scenarios couldn't include expansion characters as options. As long as there were base game characters available for that slot, then it isn't unplayable without the expansion.

Like if one of the slots was "Nightwing, Batgirl, or Red Robin", then even base game only owners would still have two options for that slot.

Also, as people have said, I imagine once you've played a bit, you will be able to mix and match a bit more, you just have to be aware that balance might not be tested for other characters in those slots.
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Dom Pavetic
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I can see a kinda of rule or even an asterisk allowing for use of expansion characters if possible in core scenarios. Kinda like "You have a choice of Batman, Catwoman, Robin, or any heroes from the Wayne Mannor expansion" Not a hard rule saying you HAVE to use say, Red Robin as a main pick, but he is possible to be used when drafting a team. The same could be issued for villains possibly. I am not 100% certain if the villain side is crafted entirely by the book, or if there is some wiggle room, but can also operate that way, much like Imperial works with, here are the cards you HAVE to use, but we also allow say, 1 group up to you, or even creating an unlikely pairing in villains to team up with the second villain up to the player, with a few restrictions maybe on pairs that are ruled to unfair for the heroes. If this is not present in the book, I am sure I'll try playing around with this idea for my home group.
 
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Lil Keezy
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On top of what has already been said, this game seems like it was designed to let players create their own custom scenarios. So if you want a scenario with hero A, B, C, and villains X, Y, Z, on map 2A you can make that.

Also would think Monolith would release additional scenarios online after the game comes out or feature player made scenarios they like. From what I understand that’s what they did with Conan.
 
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barry Doublet
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JDK002 wrote:
On top of what has already been said, this game seems like it was designed to let players create their own custom scenarios. So if you want a scenario with hero A, B, C, and villains X, Y, Z, on map 2A you can make that.

Also would think Monolith would release additional scenarios online after the game comes out or feature player made scenarios they like. From what I understand that’s what they did with Conan.


This is exactly true. Conan was a system that players could build on and create their own scenario (much like I did with Heroquest, in the day). The same can be done with Batman.
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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badgerthebrave wrote:
JDK002 wrote:
Also would think Monolith would release additional scenarios online after the game comes out or feature player made scenarios they like.
The same can be done with Batman.

With one big difference, being that as soon as DC get the rights back, Monolith can't let anyone do new stuff for its Batman, nor do new stuff.
(if I read correctly the Overlord threads (which is most certainly the case)
 
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Nicholas Palmer
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I can't imagine there is a way that DC could stipulate that fans can't make more scenarios.

Now, it may prevent Monolith from promoting those fan made scenarios, and I'm sure that Monolith is no longer allowed to make scenarios after the license goes back, but the idea that they could try to enforce stopping fans from making new scenarios... yeah, not happening.
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XofMdS wrote:
badgerthebrave wrote:
JDK002 wrote:
Also would think Monolith would release additional scenarios online after the game comes out or feature player made scenarios they like.
The same can be done with Batman.

With one big difference, being that as soon as DC get the rights back, Monolith can't let anyone do new stuff for its Batman, nor do new stuff.
(if I read correctly the Overlord threads (which is most certainly the case)


Well,

As long as you don't make any money out of it, believe me, you can publish all the scenarios you want.
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Donn Hardy
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Is that why the Conan scenarios were sent out for just the cost of shipping? No profit, so it didn't violate any licenses?
 
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donnbobhardy wrote:
Is that why the Conan scenarios were sent out for just the cost of shipping? No profit, so it didn't violate any licenses?


Not at all, the license we have for Conan is still running.
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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BadKam wrote:
As long as you don't make any money out of it, believe me, you can publish all the scenarios you want.

For random people online, sure, as Touchfuzzy said. I wouldn't be so sure that it stays as clear a shot for a company.
I am not sure Monolith could have a Conan-like-compendium for Batman once DC has the rights back, even for "free" (or free)...
Do they?
(page 8 of the "strech goal" french thread on Overlord, Fred Henri wrote "no")
 
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XofMdS wrote:
BadKam wrote:
As long as you don't make any money out of it, believe me, you can publish all the scenarios you want.

For random people online, sure, as Touchfuzzy said. I wouldn't be so sure that it stays as clear a shot for a company.
I am not sure Monolith could have a Conan-like-compendium for Batman once DC has the rights back, even for "free" (or free)...
Do they?
(page 8 of the "strech goal" french thread on Overlord, Fred Henri wrote "no")


I am the one who worked on the contract with WB.
Fred is not right in this instance.
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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BadKam wrote:
I am the one who worked on the contract with WB.
Fred is not right in this instance.

Good to know.
So, let's say sometime in a near future, Monolith offers a way for fans to create set-up maps and therefore scenarios, like for Conan.
Then in some years, DC ends rightfully the contract.
a) will said Tools still be available through Monolith (with visuals, etc)?
b) could Monolith gather fan's scenarios and offer them through a Compendium print KS where no monay is made ("à prix coûtant")?
c) could Monolith be able to put new scenarios online?
d) like b) but with Monolith's scenarios from c)?
Thanks for your insights!
 
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XofMdS wrote:
BadKam wrote:
I am the one who worked on the contract with WB.
Fred is not right in this instance.

Good to know.
So, let's say sometime in a near future, Monolith offers a way for fans to create set-up maps and therefore scenarios, like for Conan.
Then in some years, DC ends rightfully the contract.
a) will said Tools still be available through Monolith (with visuals, etc)?
b) could Monolith gather fan's scenarios and offer them through a Compendium print KS where no monay is made ("à prix coûtant")?
c) could Monolith be able to put new scenarios online?
d) like b) but with Monolith's scenarios from c)?
Thanks for your insights!


As you may understand, I am not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the contract.
One thing I can assure you, there will be a follow-up on Batman as we use to do with all our games.
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Christophe Muller de Schongor
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BadKam wrote:
As you may understand, I am not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the contract.
One thing I can assure you, there will be a follow-up on Batman as we use to do with all our games.

I understand.
I am and was assured.

My question stands: could you do that even though in time where you do not have the DC rights (no more)?
(...in a far away future)
(...hypothetically ^^)

It is of big importance, when it comes to see how long Monolith will be able to fully follow-up on Batman.
And certainly, how Monolith will be able. Certainly not "as", because Monolith have full right for Mythic Battle (until there is down the line a Mythic Battle: Justice League, or something with a IP involved, you get the idea), and that I understand that rights for Conan are Under a very different contract (more "loose" when it comes to this specific point).
 
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XofMdS wrote:
BadKam wrote:
As you may understand, I am not at liberty to discuss the specifics of the contract.
One thing I can assure you, there will be a follow-up on Batman as we use to do with all our games.

I understand.
I am and was assured.

My question stands: could you do that even though in time where you do not have the DC rights (no more)?
(...in a far away future)
(...hypothetically ^^)

It is of big importance, when it comes to see how long Monolith will be able to fully follow-up on Batman.
And certainly, how Monolith will be able. Certainly not "as", because Monolith have full right for Mythic Battle (until there is down the line a Mythic Battle: Justice League, or something with a IP involved, you get the idea), and that I understand that rights for Conan are Under a very different contract (more "loose" when it comes to this specific point).


Answering you gets into the specifics of the contract
And, other IP they hold being under the sport right now, I don't want to draw any unwanted attention ninja
In a contract, you can discuss the terms, but I don't know where we will be in 10 years from now. Who knows.
 
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