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Subject: Anyone else upset by all of these cardboard buildings? rss

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Andrew Bonneau
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It is getting the job done but it all feels very chintzy. All of it curls really bad, they don't punch well, they don't bend well at the score marks, and it just looks a bit prototype-y.

I don't know if its just me but I would have gladly paid extra to have nice plastic structures, and vessels.
 
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Ivan Alaiz
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Im sure you can find suitable replacements at least for cities and towers... just google a bit.

On vessels it will be more difficult though
 
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Scott Bender
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MajorPWNage wrote:
It is getting the job done but it all feels very chintzy. All of it curls really bad, they don't punch well, they don't bend well at the score marks, and it just looks a bit prototype-y.

I don't know if its just me but I would have gladly paid extra to have nice plastic structures, and vessels.


That was part of what scuttled the first kick-starter. If I recall correctly, they added levels for that based on "backer demand", but they were much more expensive then the base pledges and very few people actually pledged for them. Not nearly enough to make it financially feasible. To design and produce the minis would have jeopardized the whole kick-starter, so they cancelled it. When they rebooted they specifically said they wouldn't do building minis.
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Your Mama
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Micheal Coe did a video on making the constructs,I copied it and it came out great. I actually like to punch the cardboard and organize the comments of new games.
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Andrew Bonneau
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spbtc wrote:
MajorPWNage wrote:
It is getting the job done but it all feels very chintzy. All of it curls really bad, they don't punch well, they don't bend well at the score marks, and it just looks a bit prototype-y.

I don't know if its just me but I would have gladly paid extra to have nice plastic structures, and vessels.


That was part of what scuttled the first kick-starter. If I recall correctly, they added levels for that based on "backer demand", but they were much more expensive then the base pledges and very few people actually pledged for them. Not nearly enough to make it financially feasible. To design and produce the minis would have jeopardized the whole kick-starter, so they cancelled it. When they rebooted they specifically said they wouldn't do building minis.


I was unaware they had a failed attempt at kickstarting this before. But I still think it was a cop out. I have seen smaller KS campaigns manage it. With the amount of games they sold they could have made something. More specifically they could have upped the price a little on each game and added it to every game.

SDDonkey wrote:
Micheal Coe did a video on making the constructs,I copied it and it came out great. I actually like to punch the cardboard and organize the comments of new games.


I don't mind the punching and building, it's the quality that upsets me. I didn't have a single board that didn't curve and have at least one tower piece with peeling steeples. Something like plasticard could have handled this really well. Or wood, they sure do love their wood bits at Gamelyn LOL
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Scott Bender
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MajorPWNage wrote:
spbtc wrote:
MajorPWNage wrote:
It is getting the job done but it all feels very chintzy. All of it curls really bad, they don't punch well, they don't bend well at the score marks, and it just looks a bit prototype-y.

I don't know if its just me but I would have gladly paid extra to have nice plastic structures, and vessels.


That was part of what scuttled the first kick-starter. If I recall correctly, they added levels for that based on "backer demand", but they were much more expensive then the base pledges and very few people actually pledged for them. Not nearly enough to make it financially feasible. To design and produce the minis would have jeopardized the whole kick-starter, so they cancelled it. When they rebooted they specifically said they wouldn't do building minis.


I was unaware they had a failed attempt at kickstarting this before. But I still think it was a cop out. I have seen smaller KS campaigns manage it. With the amount of games they sold they could have made something. More specifically they could have upped the price a little on each game and added it to every game.


I won't pretend to know the details of the various costs associated. Gamelyn is a fairly well established company with many successful kickstarters. I assume they know their business.
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David Molina
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I doubt upping the price on a game that at the time they were getting hammered for was ever in their mindset. Seemed like there was a set of people thinking this should be a $50 game or something ludicrous like that.
 
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Andrew Bonneau
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KingJackalope wrote:
I doubt upping the price on a game that at the time they were getting hammered for was ever in their mindset. Seemed like there was a set of people thinking this should be a $50 game or something ludicrous like that.


Yea but look at any game loaded with nice plastic models, they can charge anything they want and people will buy it. I think upgrading to nice plastic models would have allowed them to charge more and get more people pledging and getting less people complaining about price.
 
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Matt Smith
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Warping punchboards is par for the course with board games. Usually, putting some weight on the boards and letting them sit overnight helps.

As for cardboard vs. plastic, I actually like the look of the cardboard better. Why? Because of the great artwork that can be printed on cardboard. The constructs look so much better with vibrant multi-color artwork than they would with monochrome plastic.

As for folding at the creases and getting damaged steeples, I plan to follow the process Michael Coe showed on his video. There is a type of Gorilla Glue gel that comes with a brush; I plan to use that glue to seal the constructs and fix any peeling issues.
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Ilja Preuß
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MajorPWNage wrote:
KingJackalope wrote:
I doubt upping the price on a game that at the time they were getting hammered for was ever in their mindset. Seemed like there was a set of people thinking this should be a $50 game or something ludicrous like that.


Yea but look at any game loaded with nice plastic models, they can charge anything they want and people will buy it. I think upgrading to nice plastic models would have allowed them to charge more and get more people pledging and getting less people complaining about price.


So what do you make of the fact that they tried that and it didn't work?
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Eirik Johnsbråten
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Plastic minis for cities and vessels was never a part of the first kickstarter. Some people may have wanted it, but it was not an option.

The controversy in the first KS was the option to have standees instead of miniatures, so there was three levels at which you could back. Added to the fact that the expansion was in two parts instead of one, there were very many options, and a real headache for Gamelyn to produce.
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Christian Villarreal
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spbtc wrote:
MajorPWNage wrote:
It is getting the job done but it all feels very chintzy. All of it curls really bad, they don't punch well, they don't bend well at the score marks, and it just looks a bit prototype-y.

I don't know if its just me but I would have gladly paid extra to have nice plastic structures, and vessels.


That was part of what scuttled the first kick-starter. If I recall correctly, they added levels for that based on "backer demand", but they were much more expensive then the base pledges and very few people actually pledged for them. Not nearly enough to make it financially feasible. To design and produce the minis would have jeopardized the whole kick-starter, so they cancelled it. When they rebooted they specifically said they wouldn't do building minis.


No, it had nothing to do with minis for buildings. It was an outcry for a cheaper option which resulted in the 'standees' option that practically no one pledged for. The building have always been constructs...
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Scott Bender
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fuzzyfoot wrote:
spbtc wrote:
MajorPWNage wrote:
It is getting the job done but it all feels very chintzy. All of it curls really bad, they don't punch well, they don't bend well at the score marks, and it just looks a bit prototype-y.

I don't know if its just me but I would have gladly paid extra to have nice plastic structures, and vessels.


That was part of what scuttled the first kick-starter. If I recall correctly, they added levels for that based on "backer demand", but they were much more expensive then the base pledges and very few people actually pledged for them. Not nearly enough to make it financially feasible. To design and produce the minis would have jeopardized the whole kick-starter, so they cancelled it. When they rebooted they specifically said they wouldn't do building minis.


No, it had nothing to do with minis for buildings. It was an outcry for a cheaper option which resulted in the 'standees' option that practically no one pledged for. The building have always been constructs...


Ah, thanks. I knew I should have gone back to research that bit . . .
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Siege weapons were the only ones that gave me major issues. Much more troubling with this game is the fact the box does not fit in Kallax without making it double wide, that infuriates me angry
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Just finished all the constructs. Not sure exactly how much time it took but I estimate at least 4 hours. I did glue them with Gorilla gap filling Superglue which added some time. And added some reinforcement along the tower seams.

The only major issues I had was the Goblin buildings. A few of the holes for the tabs were too thin on one side of each capital and tower. And the siege weapons needed more design work since the tabs and holes didn't line up too well. I didn't damage any of them but had major issues getting the inserts in, especially the towers.

It was fun for about the first half. But did get tired of assembling all those towers/capitals. And I got a lot of superglue on my fingers which took some serious scrubbing. I was even careful but still got a coating on several fingers.

Now onto figuring out best solution for packing back into the boxes.

I hope we like it. Was quite a job. Hopefully we'll get it played next weekend.
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Andrew Bonneau
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ScottE wrote:
Just finished all the constructs. Not sure exactly how much time it took but I estimate at least 4 hours. I did glue them with Gorilla gap filling Superglue which added some time. And added some reinforcement along the tower seams.

The only major issues I had was the Goblin buildings. A few of the holes for the tabs were too thin on one side of each capital and tower. And the siege weapons needed more design work since the tabs and holes didn't line up too well. I didn't damage any of them but had major issues getting the inserts in, especially the towers.

It was fun for about the first half. But did get tired of assembling all those towers/capitals. And I got a lot of superglue on my fingers which took some serious scrubbing. I was even careful but still got a coating on several fingers.

Now onto figuring out best solution for packing back into the boxes.

I hope we like it. Was quite a job. Hopefully we'll get it played next weekend.


I refused to put in all that extra work for cardboard. Took maybe an hour to assemble everything with a little help from a friend. It wasn't really a pleasant experience like prepping plastic is for me though.

It was a lot of this didnt punch, this slot is a bit too snug, and one every puzzle piece connector was a big F*** this thing LOL
 
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MajorPWNage wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Just finished all the constructs. Not sure exactly how much time it took but I estimate at least 4 hours. I did glue them with Gorilla gap filling Superglue which added some time. And added some reinforcement along the tower seams.

The only major issues I had was the Goblin buildings. A few of the holes for the tabs were too thin on one side of each capital and tower. And the siege weapons needed more design work since the tabs and holes didn't line up too well. I didn't damage any of them but had major issues getting the inserts in, especially the towers.

It was fun for about the first half. But did get tired of assembling all those towers/capitals. And I got a lot of superglue on my fingers which took some serious scrubbing. I was even careful but still got a coating on several fingers.

Now onto figuring out best solution for packing back into the boxes.

I hope we like it. Was quite a job. Hopefully we'll get it played next weekend.


I refused to put in all that extra work for cardboard. Took maybe an hour to assemble everything with a little help from a friend. It wasn't really a pleasant experience like prepping plastic is for me though.

It was a lot of this didnt punch, this slot is a bit too snug, and one every puzzle piece connector was a big F*** this thing LOL

I look at it this way: Like most people in the US, I watch too much TV. I often surf the web while watching TV. Once my copy of the game arrives, I'll assemble constructs while watching TV, instead of web surfing. So I won't lose a single minute of my life assembling constructs; I'll just do it during my normal TV time. Since I plan to use glue, I fully expect it will take some time.
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mvettemagred wrote:
MajorPWNage wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Just finished all the constructs. Not sure exactly how much time it took but I estimate at least 4 hours. I did glue them with Gorilla gap filling Superglue which added some time. And added some reinforcement along the tower seams.

The only major issues I had was the Goblin buildings. A few of the holes for the tabs were too thin on one side of each capital and tower. And the siege weapons needed more design work since the tabs and holes didn't line up too well. I didn't damage any of them but had major issues getting the inserts in, especially the towers.

It was fun for about the first half. But did get tired of assembling all those towers/capitals. And I got a lot of superglue on my fingers which took some serious scrubbing. I was even careful but still got a coating on several fingers.

Now onto figuring out best solution for packing back into the boxes.

I hope we like it. Was quite a job. Hopefully we'll get it played next weekend.


I refused to put in all that extra work for cardboard. Took maybe an hour to assemble everything with a little help from a friend. It wasn't really a pleasant experience like prepping plastic is for me though.

It was a lot of this didnt punch, this slot is a bit too snug, and one every puzzle piece connector was a big F*** this thing LOL

I look at it this way: Like most people in the US, I watch too much TV. I often surf the web while watching TV. Once my copy of the game arrives, I'll assemble constructs while watching TV, instead of web surfing. So I won't lose a single minute of my life assembling constructs; I'll just do it during my normal TV time. Since I plan to use glue, I fully expect it will take some time.


The time I have to spend doing that I could be assembling or painting a mini though. So spending a lot of time building janky cardboard bits is a huge loss of time for me.
 
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Matt Smith
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Let me do some math. Each faction has 8 constructs. If you were given 8 monochrome plastic minis instead of cardboard, you would need time to paint them. I'm not a minis painter, but let's assume 2 hours per mini to get color and detail equivalent to the art on the cardboard. That's 16 hours per faction, or 128 hours to paint everything (base game + expansion). Add another 12 hours for the siege engines, and your talking 140 hours. And I haven't even looked at the cost of primer, paints and sealer.

Or, you could spend 3-4 hours constructing cardboard constructs.

From a time commitment perspective, I think I'll stick with the cardboard. It's easy to work with, and has much better looking art than anything I could ever paint on a plastic mini.
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Except that I think just nice single color plastic models would have looked nicer and then had the potential for further upgrade. You could also make them look all special really quickly, terrain and buildings are easily the fastest things to paint. Also, at least for me personally, painting a mini is fun a therapeutic where as fighting with cardboard is borderline maddening.
 
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Plastic vessels and towers would have added SO much to the pledge price. This being the entry game into big box games I know the price point was a HUGE consideration. They were already taking heat for the price as it was.
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I like the way the constructs look. But I did have some issues with assembly. The flying and vessels were fine, but the towers and especially capital buildings were a pain and some of mine ended up damaged. A huge issue was inconsistent punch quality and inconsistent sizing for the holes.

I still need to do the siege engines.
 
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KingJackalope wrote:
Plastic vessels and towers would have added SO much to the pledge price. This being the entry game into big box games I know the price point was a HUGE consideration. They were already taking heat for the price as it was.


People would have paid it. There is a reason games full of plastic minis are always the biggest KS projects.
 
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When you spend as much on games and upgraded games as I do a month, this was a welcome move by Gamelyn. I am okay with cardboard components. The price point was already pushing it for me, as-is. And I was all-in on this, Rising Sun and 7th Continent.
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jsteedhayes wrote:
When you spend as much on games and upgraded games as I do a month, this was a welcome move by Gamelyn. I am okay with cardboard components. The price point was already pushing it for me, as-is. And I was all-in on this, Rising Sun and 7th Continent.


+1.

It sure did seem to be the overwhelming sentiment while the campaign was going on that this price point was about the upper limits of what people wanted to spend. To make all plastic vessels and buildings I think would have about doubled the price and I don't think it would have went over well at all. Maybe they'll do another KS with just the plastic 'upgrade' pieces. Might be interesting. Now that the game is out and people are seeing what a spectacular game it is maybe they'd be more lenient to a higher price point.
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