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Star Realms» Forums » Variants

Subject: Slight rule change for imho more fun rss

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Stefan Marbury
Germany
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Hi,

I hope this is not a repost. My unprofessional search didn't reveal anything.

I am pretty new to Star Realms (playing it for some weeks now). And while I enjoy those quick battles very much I seldomly have the urge to really destroy my opponents bases, if I know that I can get my opponent down to 0 quick enough (and it is not an outpost of course). So my girlfriend and I started to mess with the rules a bit and we find that this slight change very interesting:

Bases (and Outposts) are not destroyed but conquered. That means that a destroyed/conquered base doesn't go to the players discard pile but to the opponents discard pile. This opens up some other tactics imho.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,
Stefan
 
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Brendan Lapsley
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First instinct I'd have is that no one would ever buy bases as you'd also be funding your opponents fleet if they destroy it.
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Mike De Groote
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I would stop using the bases then so no not a real option here.
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Ben
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I'm by no means an expert of the game, but this seems like it would make the game a lot more swingy. A lot of bases are fairly easy to destroy (many at 3 health or less) and if destroying them, meant losing them, bases would end up being a lot weaker and not worth paying for them in the trade row. I know if that rule was in place, I'd probably mostly ignore bases since I wouldn't want to lose them after spending hard earned credits.
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Joe Kundlak
Slovakia
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The real question is - have you tried it? Go and report back.
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Eric Brosius
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I think you'd need to re-cost everything, since this would make bases less valuable. A game such as you propose could work, but the parameters would need to be all different.
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Evan Schwartzberg
Canada
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I agree with everything posted so far as to why you would avoid buying bases and outposts with the variant as written.

To the OP, if you are looking at something like this, maybe play the rules as written, but if you could do twice as much damage to the base, then you could take it over. An example: If you own Mech World, your opponent would destroy it with 6 damage, but could capture it with 12 damage. If you do <12 points of damage this turn, your only option is to destroy the base (for this example).

Not sure if 2x is the right variable (maybe 3x?) or not. I don't know if I'd use this variant, but if the OP is looking for suggestions....
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Bill Cook
United States
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Maybe you throw in a "you must buy a base if you can" rule.
 
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Stefan Marbury
Germany
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doubling or tripling the Combat needed is definitely an option. Yes I am open for suggestions. That's why I posted this here
And the idea is in no way perfect.

I just think the following about bases: They are way to easy. Not enough nuisance. In the beginning I don't have enough Combat to get rid of any of the bases but enough authority to just ignore them. Further into the game I have enough combat to just chew thru them easily. Same goes for Outposts.
They should be much harder to overcome or at least do much more damage.

I am thinking about things like (in any combination):

- bases should be scrapped once they are destroyed and not return to the discard pile
- Combat they provide should be doubled
- if destroyed by double/triple the combat they are mine
- Defense value adds to my Authority. So I cannot loose, if I still have functioning Bases
- maybe a line of Defense? Cannot attack my Authority, if there is a Base. Cannot attack a Base, if there is an Outpost

With the original rules it is still much fun and a quick play. But I want the feeling of "Oh god, not a Base again". Currently I mostly think "Whatever" ... maybe I played to many games like Mansions of Madness, Death Angel, Pandemic and the like and am kind of masochistic. But I like a good tactic stress factor

Cheers
 
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Benj Davis
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Maybe try halving the cost of them and give that a whirl?
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John
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One of the main annoyances of bases is that they provide ally abilities. If I don't destroy my opponent's base then I know the ally abilities of all ships of that faction will always trigger. Yes, there are some bases that I'll often ignore but if my opponent gets lots of bases then at some point i'm going to be in trouble. (Also Embassy Yacht is great against someone who never destroys bases!)
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Björn Harzer
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zabdiel wrote:
One of the main annoyances of bases is that they provide ally abilities. If I don't destroy my opponent's base then I know the ally abilities of all ships of that faction will always trigger. Yes, there are some bases that I'll often ignore but if my opponent gets lots of bases then at some point i'm going to be in trouble. (Also Embassy Yacht is great against someone who never destroys bases!)


i second this thought... bases have a strategic value for the faction triggers. if your opponent does rid of them, he will surely suffer....
 
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Benj Davis
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Ooh, or another idea: instead of being discarded when they're destroyed, what if you put them in the central row?
That way, if you've got the resources to buy it, you can conquer it straight away, and if not, your opponent has the chance to get it back.

Should still make them cheaper though, if you'll potentially have to buy them several times, and they'll be much less useful.
 
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Bill Cook
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Question: Are there any cards in the expansions that let you take an opponents card? Seems like a fun mechanism and I can't think of any cards that use it.
 
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Brendan Lapsley
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EMBison wrote:
Question: Are there any cards in the expansions that let you take an opponents card? Seems like a fun mechanism and I can't think of any cards that use it.


The only thing that comes close is the Stealth Tower in the Colony Wars expansion. It allows copying of any base in play (think Stealth Needle for bases), but it can copy opponents bases, not just your own.
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EMBison wrote:
Question: Are there any cards in the expansions that let you take an opponents card? Seems like a fun mechanism and I can't think of any cards that use it.


Are you familiar with the concept of loss aversion? On a deep, instinctual level, humans hate losing something that they think is theirs. When playing a 2 player point salad game, you will feel better if your opponent scores 5 points instead of your opponent making you lose 5 points. In fact, both effects have the same exact effect on the point difference between you (the only thing that should matter) but one feels much more unpleasant.

Let me put it another way, you know how bad or feels when you are in a close trade race and your opponent buys Brain World while you are sitting on an 8 trade hand? It will feel 10 times worse to have your opponent take a Brain World you bought.

Another deck builder I own, Brass Empire has a card that lets you steal an opponent's card and another that lets you remove an opponent's card from the game. I feel irrational fear and hatred when an opponent buys one of them. I did manage once to scrap the stealing card from my wife's hand. The sadness in her eyes at that moment almost ruined the play for me.
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Patrick Myers
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with the caveat that you are obviously welcome to tweak the rules however you think is the most fun, strategically I think bases are frequently undervalued by new players because their printed abilities can initially appear weaker or overcosted than equivalent ships. But their value is more subtle, in providing defense (at minimum), and if left in play triggering ally abilities and their effects over multiple turns. A base left in play in the early game for more than one turn can have a huge swing in a game, like say a Barter World where you are starting each turn with 2 extra trade essentially (and triggering any blue ally abilities).
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Adam Rouse
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Unless you can defeat your opponent immediately with your combat, you should almost always destroy whatever bases you can. Not only do they provide easy alliance bonuses to any matching cards in hand, but even if the effects are weak, the power of getting that effect every turn adds up quickly.
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Martin Holden
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I think it is part of the fun with non outpost bases especially the Blob ones. You don't have to attack them but it could cost you to leave them alone. There are bases that do 4 damage - that every turn could be costly.
The Blob base that just gives one coin may not be up to much, but left a lone will always be there to trigger any Blob allied abilities. A player who accumulates enough of these bases (Blob or otherwise) can gain substantial advantages if nothing is done. Do you go for reducing these advantages or go direct for their Authority? That's part of the game.
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In addition to what the two above me have said, bases become very powerful once you introduce cards that let you return a base to your hand. There are bases which give you benefits for playing another base. There are cards which give you benefits for having a certain number of bases in play (defense bot, embassy yacht).

One of my favorite ways to play is to overwhelm the enemy with bases. Either they spend all their combat on bases or I keep piling on the bases getting more benefits.
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