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Cataclysm: A Second World War» Forums » General

Subject: Define Belligerent In a Better Fashion rss

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Tom O'Neill
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Im having a hard time wrapping my head around this term. In the rule book it says 2 powers at war are belligerent.
Does this mean, for example, the UK and USA can be at war and that means they are belligerent?
And then it says this: A counter, cube, or area is friendly to its controlling power, and also to its allies if they are belligerent

What does this mean?
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Stephen Rochelle
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"Belligerent" means "at war", but not "at war with each other". To grab historical examples, in 1940, the UK and France are belligerent democracies that are allied and the US is not belligerent or allied. In 1938, the UK and France are allied but not belligerent (the US is still neither).

In no case is a power at war with another power in its ideology.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Stephen is correct. In summary: if a power is at war (with any other power) it is belligerent.

For a long time the rules would say stuff like “a power at war can blah blah”, we introduced “belligerent” to make those phrases simpler.

To answer your last question, if two allies are also belligerent (i.e. at war with anybody) their stuff is friendly to each other.
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Stephen Rochelle
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And I didn't type this earlier (because tablet keyboard), but two allies that are belligerent will always be at war with common opponent(s). That is, there is no case where the UK and France are allies but only one of them is belligerent (say, with respect to Germany).

Either one goes to war and the other joins (allied, belligerent) or one goes to war and the other breaks the alliance (non-allied, one belligerent and the other not).
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Yes, correct.
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Tom O'Neill
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Thanks. I get it now. Belligerent= At war.

Makes sense now.

If France and the UK are Allies and France declares was on the Germany, they both become belligerent to Germany. And the UK becomes belligerent to Germany or they break the alliance.
France and the UK cannot declare war on each other. So they are never belligerent to each other.

Thanks, again, for clearing this up.
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Tom O'Neill
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And France can never be at war with the UK?
Or Germany with Italy?
Or the USA with France?

Etc.

If they are under the same ideology umbrella, they cannot go to war, but they can not be allied. Is that correct?
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Stephen Rochelle
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A power can never be at was within its own ideology. A power can only ally within its own ideology.

By extension, the USSR cannot ally (mechanically) with anyone. It's controlling player can, of course, form a player-to-player alliance of convenience, but that has no game effect.
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Mattias Svanstrom
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Tarc wrote:

And then it says this: A counter, cube, or area is friendly to its controlling power, and also to its allies if they are belligerent


sdiberar wrote:
To answer your last question, if two allies are also belligerent (i.e. at war with anybody) their stuff is friendly to each other.


Sorry to ask for clarification but "they" in the rulebook confuses me, as it can be interpreted in more than one way. France and UK are allies.

Are French units friendly to UK
a) if UK is at war but France is not?
b) if UK is at war and France is at war?
c) only b) is relevant as if one ally is at war then all of them must be, at all times?
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Integer wrote:
Sorry to ask for clarification but "they" in the rulebook confuses me, as it can be interpreted in more than one way. France and UK are allies.

Are French units friendly to UK
a) if UK is at war but France is not?
b) if UK is at war and France is at war?
c) only b) is relevant as if one ally is at war then all of them must be, at all times?


The answer is C - allies must share belligerency status. As well, the definition of “friendly” requires alliance AND belligerence.
 
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Mattias Svanstrom
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Thanks, Scott!
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