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Subject: Countermeasure Clarification - View more than once rss

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Mick
United States
Baldwinsville
New York
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What exactly does viewing a diagram "more than once" mean when it comes to this countermeasure?

Does viewing the diagram after drawing it count as your single view before triggering the countermeasure, or do you get one "free" view after it has been placed?

This countermeasure seems oddly out of place in the game because viewing your own diagrams wasn't something we really policed until this countermeasure came up (the rules state that you can view your own diagrams whenever you want, as many times as you want). Locking them all down with a single countermeasure feels a bit powerful, considering there is a character who needs to hold his skill bead on an opponent's diagram just to lock down a single one.
 
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Crazed Survivor
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They wouldn't be locked down. The countermeasure would punish poor memory by giving you points when another player doesn't remember their diagram.
 
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Rich A
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Razoupaf wrote:
They wouldn't be locked down. The countermeasure would punish poor memory by giving you points when another player doesn't remember their diagram.


Ah that makes sense! I hadn't understood it either but actually it's quite straight forward.
 
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Mick
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Sorry, was a poor word choice. I know they aren't actually locked down, just effectively, because giving your opponent 10% of a win is a large penalty.

The clarification I am looking for is when they are triggered.
 
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Cymsdale wrote:
Sorry, was a poor word choice. I know they aren't actually locked down, just effectively, because giving your opponent 10% of a win is a large penalty.

The clarification I am looking for is when they are triggered.


If it's "more than once", and I doubt the card will look back to before when it was drawn, I'd say anytime a player looks at their diagram after the first time after the card enters play.
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Brian Lewis
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I also assume that looking at a diagram once after it's been altered wouldn't give any points.
 
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Mick
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verballyinsane wrote:
I also assume that looking at a diagram once after it's been altered wouldn't give any points.


I don't know if that assumption can be made.

That's where I have a problem with the whole thing. One could easily argue that looking at the card after it has been altered still violates the text of the counter-measure, meaning you have to memorize all four patterns if you don't want to give your opponent points.
 
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Cymsdale wrote:
verballyinsane wrote:
I also assume that looking at a diagram once after it's been altered wouldn't give any points.


I don't know if that assumption can be made.

That's where I have a problem with the whole thing. One could easily argue that looking at the card after it has been altered still violates the text of the counter-measure, meaning you have to memorize all four patterns if you don't want to give your opponent points.


Considering this can happen solo (altered diagram that you can't look at unless you take the specific action), I would say that looking after altering triggers the countermeasure.

Keep in mind that none of my answers are official.
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Mick
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Razoupaf wrote:
Cymsdale wrote:
verballyinsane wrote:
I also assume that looking at a diagram once after it's been altered wouldn't give any points.


I don't know if that assumption can be made.

That's where I have a problem with the whole thing. One could easily argue that looking at the card after it has been altered still violates the text of the counter-measure, meaning you have to memorize all four patterns if you don't want to give your opponent points.


Considering this can happen solo (altered diagram that you can't look at unless you take the specific action), I would say that looking after altering triggers the countermeasure.

Keep in mind that none of my answers are official.


I thought countermeasures weren't used in solo play.
 
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Cymsdale wrote:
I thought countermeasures weren't used in solo play.


It isn't a countermeasure, it's a room effect.
 
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AGN1964 AGN1964
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He is how we play it:

Countermeasure comes into effect and is announced clearly.
Opponent immediately gets to look at all cards "for free", if they wish.
The next time a card is looked at, the opponent triggers the Countermeasure.

Exceptions and oddities:
Flipping a card and scoring it does not trigger the counter measure.
Opponent immediately gets to look at a card once if it is altered.
 
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AGN1964 wrote:
Opponent immediately gets to look at a card once if it is altered.


You're losing the control and nuisance aspect of it, though, and that's one I'd enjoy playing
 
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Mick
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We just ended up house-ruling out that side of the card completely (treat it like a 3-sided card and that side is no longer legal). It's too weird and annoying compared to the other countermeasures and immediately sucks the fun out of the game when someone uses it.
 
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