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Austerlitz 1805: Rising Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: several questions rss

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arubioe arubioe
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hi

several question from my first game (secenario 2):

When a CAV make counter charging gain automatically a Cavalry flanking bonus or must comply also three points from 17.7?

a stack with meele combat arrow pointing to a empty hex can attack another adjacent hex?

what happen when modified result from fire is one, zero or negative?

what happen when modified result from melee combat is one or zero? and 12+?

what happen when in a melee attack a cav stack has a +2 DRM por unprepared attck and another cav stack has a prepared attack marker?

12 an 2 DR unmodified in meele and fire table is no direct effect (except make a DR in random special event table), right?

I must use random event table only one a leader is engaged? or also for risk of flag capture if there is not any leade engaged?

When a unit/stack make a initial route move can avoid EZOC,overstacked HEX and hex with contagion risk or must use most direct route to its supply hex?

When i make a melee atack into a town defend by a INF unit and i have a cav stack and a INF stack, what DRM apply to combat, +3 or +1?

few counters for cavalry special rules (fatigue,flanking, prepared attack, emergency defence,..)?

thanks
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James C
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Welcome aboard! I'll take a crack at these - and am sure some of the more experienced veterans (if not the designer himself) will chime in if I'm mistaken about anything.

When a CAV make counter charging gain automatically a Cavalry flanking bonus or must comply also three points from 17.7?
Flanking bonus is automatic when counter charging.

a stack with meele combat arrow pointing to a empty hex can attack another adjacent hex?
No, I don't believe so. But I'm not sure how this would happen.
Melee declarations are made by the attacker during the melee declaration phase before they're resolved.
When resolving melee against a hex, the strength points of all units/stacks targeting that particular hex are combined in one melee combat against the defending stack.

what happen when modified result from fire is one, zero or negative?
You treat that as a "2" I think.

what happen when modified result from melee combat is one or zero? and 12+?
I think you treat it as a 2 or 12, respectively.

what happen when in a melee attack a cav stack has a +2 DRM por unprepared attck and another cav stack has a prepared attack marker?
Ahhh... this has driven me crazy! It's not very clear in the rules. As per the example on page 19 of the rulebook, so long as one of the attacking lead cavalry units is prepared, it appears as though the +2 DRM penalty can be avoided.

12 an 2 DR unmodified in meele and fire table is no direct effect (except make a DR in random special event table), right?
I don't completely understand your question, but if you're asking are there any additional consequences, other than the combat results and the potential for leader loss, the answer is yes.

I must use random event table only one a leader is engaged? or also for risk of flag capture if there is not any leade engaged?
This too has troubled me! If you look long and hard enough, I think you will find that somewhere in the rules there's that statement or suggestion that these rolls are only made if a leader is engaged. Thus, I've concluded that the extra flags can't be capture if a leader isn't engaged in the attack.

When a unit/stack make a initial route move can avoid EZOC,overstacked HEX and hex with contagion risk or must use most direct route to its supply hex?
It need not use the most direct route - it must however end its movement closer to the supply hex than when it began to rout

When i make a melee atack into a town defend by a INF unit and i have a cav stack and a INF stack, what DRM apply to combat, +3 or +1?
You stumped me on that one! I have no idea!! I'm calling for reinforcements on this one!


few counters for cavalry special rules (fatigue,flanking, prepared attack, emergency defence,..)?
I haven't had an issue with running out of counters for anything.

I hope that helps!
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Norman Smith
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arubioe wrote:

When i make a melee atack into a town defend by a INF unit and i have a cav stack and a INF stack, what DRM apply to combat, +3 or +1?

thanks


Neither. It is a +2 modifier. On the terrain chart you will notice that on the town terrain, there is a small red asterisk in the melee column. go to the very bottom of the terrain chart and the asterisk note is explained.
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Norman Smith
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arubioe wrote:

12 an 2 DR unmodified in meele and fire table is no direct effect (except make a DR in random special event table), right?

thanks

No - if you roll 12, then it means that regardless of how that die roll is modified, the attacker will always rout, so it will not take a QFT, it goes straight to rout (even if you modify down to 10), but you also apply the 'R' REDUCED result if there is one. So say you roll a 12 but have a -1 attack modifier, You will still apply the QFT1 + R result that the modified 11 gives you, but the QFT1 bit will be an automatic fail and the unit will rout because of the double 6 being rolled.

Likewise, if you roll a 2, you can ignore any QFT result, because you will automatically pass the test, but you must still apply any 'R' REDUCED result. So if you roll 2 (unmodified and there is a +1 modifier to the attack, the result will be QFT1 + R from the 3 result line (2 roll + 1 modifier), but because you rolled double 1, you ignore the QFT1 bit as you automatically pass, but still apply the R.
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Norman Smith
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[q="arubioe
I must use random event table only one a leader is engaged? or also for risk of flag capture if there is not any leade engaged?

thanks[/q]

If you FIRE at a target hex that has a leader ... that leader MUST take a test if a two is rolled. His situation against fire has nothing to do with being engaged, he and his men are being fired at and he simply may or may not get shot.

In MELEE, you CHOOSE whether or not to put your leader into the melee and if you do, then that leader is treated as being engaged.

Immediately underneath the Melee Table is says 'Possible flag capture or engaged leader loss'. I am assuming that the OR is important here and that what is being represented by the taking of such trophies is the physical capture of the enemy flag / eagle and as such it does not mean that a leader must be present to gain the flag (this is reinforced by the way flags are 'earned' from destroying routed units in melee regardless of whether they have a leader with them or not. Rule 20.1 says of a leader 'IF PRESENT' it then says or that a flag has been captured. The construction of that sentence suggests that those two things are separate considerations.

Sorry for the long winded answers ... I hope they are right :-)
 
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James C
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normsmith wrote:
arubioe wrote:

When i make a melee atack into a town defend by a INF unit and i have a cav stack and a INF stack, what DRM apply to combat, +3 or +1?

thanks


Neither. It is a +2 modifier. On the terrain chart you will notice that on the town terrain, there is a small red asterisk in the melee column. go to the very bottom of the terrain chart and the asterisk note is explained.

Are you sure about this one?
As I read and reread the chart and asterisk, it seems to me that a +3 DRM Is the most likely answer - but this is a guess.
For neither the chart nor the rules explicitly addresses the OP's question.
The chart is quite unclear on what to do when infantry inside a town is defending against BOTH infantry AND cavalry. The former, by itself, yields a +1DRM; the latter, by itself, a +3 DRM. Which takes precedence?
 
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James C
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normsmith wrote:
arubioe wrote:

12 an 2 DR unmodified in meele and fire table is no direct effect (except make a DR in random special event table), right?

thanks

No - if you roll 12, then it means that regardless of how that die roll is modified, the attacker will always rout, so it will not take a QFT, it goes straight to rout (even if you modify down to 10), but you also apply the 'R' REDUCED result if there is one. So say you roll a 12 but have a -1 attack modifier, You will still apply the QFT1 + R result that the modified 11 gives you, but the QFT1 bit will be an automatic fail and the unit will rout because of the double 6 being rolled.

Likewise, if you roll a 2, you can ignore any QFT result, because you will automatically pass the test, but you must still apply any 'R' REDUCED result. So if you roll 2 (unmodified and there is a +1 modifier to the attack, the result will be QFT1 + R from the 3 result line (2 roll + 1 modifier), but because you rolled double 1, you ignore the QFT1 bit as you automatically pass, but still apply the R.

I'm still learning this game, admittedly, but I'm not too sure about this.
Here's the rules text in full:

13.2.c Meleeresult
Melee results are provided by the Melee Table
An “R” result indicates that ALL units (including artillery) in ONE stack will lose one step each. Apply this result ONLY AFTER a possible QFT check.
ere is always one defending stack but there can be multiple attacking stacks. If there is more than one attacking stack, the defending player may choose which one of the attacker’s stacks will take the “R” result. Remember that in attacking stacks, non- activated units are immune from “R” results.

A QFT, QFT1, QFT2 result indicates that the affected side must take a QF test with 0, +1 or +2 DRM. Roll one DR per a ected stack, which will apply to all of the units in the hex (one defending hex and/or all attacking hexes).

An unmodified DR of 12 is always a rout for the entire stack and an unmodi ed DR of 2 always a success.
If the combat result calls for a test for both sides, the defenders must test and apply any results first.


Isn't the roll of "2" and "12" here referring to the QFT roll, and not the melee combat attack roll?
 
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walter vejdo
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Yes
The DR refers to the QFT roll
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Norman Smith
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Professor X wrote:
normsmith wrote:
arubioe wrote:

When i make a melee atack into a town defend by a INF unit and i have a cav stack and a INF stack, what DRM apply to combat, +3 or +1?

thanks


Neither. It is a +2 modifier. On the terrain chart you will notice that on the town terrain, there is a small red asterisk in the melee column. go to the very bottom of the terrain chart and the asterisk note is explained.

Are you sure about this one?
As I read and reread the chart and asterisk, it seems to me that a +3 DRM Is the most likely answer - but this is a guess.
For neither the chart nor the rules explicitly addresses the OP's question.
The chart is quite unclear on what to do when infantry inside a town is defending against BOTH infantry AND cavalry. The former, by itself, yields a +1DRM; the latter, by itself, a +3 DRM. Which takes precedence?


My comments are true for the LIGNY terrain chart, which is the one I am using right now. You are right in relation to the Austerlitz terrain chart. I think the rules say that later charts do not update building terrain effects in earlier modules, I will check.

EDIT .... it is in the January 2018 Q&A / Errata document that each module retains its own Terrain Effects Chart and that terrain combat die roll modifiers remain unique to each module - so you are right, it is +3 for Austerlitz (and just +2 for Ligny). sorry for any confusion.
 
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James C
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normsmith wrote:
Professor X wrote:
normsmith wrote:
arubioe wrote:

12 an 2 DR unmodified in meele and fire table is no direct effect (except make a DR in random special event table), right?

thanks

No - if you roll 12, then it means that regardless of how that die roll is modified, the attacker will always rout, so it will not take a QFT, it goes straight to rout (even if you modify down to 10), but you also apply the 'R' REDUCED result if there is one. So say you roll a 12 but have a -1 attack modifier, You will still apply the QFT1 + R result that the modified 11 gives you, but the QFT1 bit will be an automatic fail and the unit will rout because of the double 6 being rolled.

Likewise, if you roll a 2, you can ignore any QFT result, because you will automatically pass the test, but you must still apply any 'R' REDUCED result. So if you roll 2 (unmodified and there is a +1 modifier to the attack, the result will be QFT1 + R from the 3 result line (2 roll + 1 modifier), but because you rolled double 1, you ignore the QFT1 bit as you automatically pass, but still apply the R.

I'm still learning this game, admittedly, but I'm not too sure about this.
Here's the rules text in full:

13.2.c Meleeresult
Melee results are provided by the Melee Table
An “R” result indicates that ALL units (including artillery) in ONE stack will lose one step each. Apply this result ONLY AFTER a possible QFT check.
ere is always one defending stack but there can be multiple attacking stacks. If there is more than one attacking stack, the defending player may choose which one of the attacker’s stacks will take the “R” result. Remember that in attacking stacks, non- activated units are immune from “R” results.

A QFT, QFT1, QFT2 result indicates that the affected side must take a QF test with 0, +1 or +2 DRM. Roll one DR per a ected stack, which will apply to all of the units in the hex (one defending hex and/or all attacking hexes).

An unmodified DR of 12 is always a rout for the entire stack and an unmodi ed DR of 2 always a success.
If the combat result calls for a test for both sides, the defenders must test and apply any results first.


Isn't the roll of "2" and "12" here referring to the QFT roll, and not the melee combat attack roll?


That is what my explanation says ..... regardless of what you modify the attack melee dice to, if you actually roll 12 or 2, then any non 'R' part of the (modified) combat result is either auto rout or pass respectively. In effect you do not make a QFT roll because the result is automatically created by the 12 or 2.

We may be speaking past each other.
As I understand it, you roll the dice for melee.
A natural 2 or 12 has no special effect however.
If the result of the melee is a QFT, then you make a second roll.
It is with regard to that second roll that a natural 2 or 12 results in an automatic rout / automatic success.
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Norman Smith
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James, yes you are right (I have deleted my post to reduce confusion).

The 2 and 12 apply when taking the QFT in response to a melee result.
 
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James C
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normsmith wrote:
James, yes you are right (I have deleted my post to reduce confusion).

The 2 and 12 apply when taking the QFT in response to a melee result.

Ha! It's about time I correct one of your (mis)understandings ... instead of the other way around!
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